Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
Moderator: drseti
Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
Isabella County, Michigan. No fatalities, but the airplane is written off. The left wing clipped a tree taking off.
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/227677
Stan Cooper (K4DRD)
Private Pilot ASEL LSRI
Experimental AMD CH601XLi-B Zodiac LSA N601KE (KSTS)
Private Pilot ASEL LSRI
Experimental AMD CH601XLi-B Zodiac LSA N601KE (KSTS)
Re: Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
Mt. Pleasant, Michigan.
Bill Ince
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator
Re: Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
That looked like rougher water than I'd take off from in a seaplane - and it seemed to take them an inordinate amount of time get airborne.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
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Re: Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
I’m not a sea plane rated pilot, nor do I play one on TV, that said, I can tell you from watching that video, the flight was doomed from the start. Thanks for posting Stan and thank god no one was seriously hurt. Very, very lucky...
- FastEddieB
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Re: Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
It’s hard to tell in the video if the takeoff run was into the wind.
It also looks like a lot of flaps, but not sure what the takeoff setting is in an A5.
Seems like just another 5 or 10 seconds in “ground” effect to build speed would have avoided this accident entirely, regardless of what preceded it.
It also looks like a lot of flaps, but not sure what the takeoff setting is in an A5.
Seems like just another 5 or 10 seconds in “ground” effect to build speed would have avoided this accident entirely, regardless of what preceded it.
Re: Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
Looking at the waves early in the video and the sailboat off in the distance during his takeoff run, I think he took off into the wind, but took much longer that anticipated due to the rough water. Once airborne, he had to make a turn to the right to avoid the trees. Just as he was leaving ground effect, he turned downwind and lost a lot of lift (ground speed does not increase instantaneously). He started mushing down and then clipped a tree.
It looked to me he had a lot of water behind him when he started his takeoff run.
It looked to me he had a lot of water behind him when he started his takeoff run.
Retired from flying.
Re: Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
True, but perhaps unavoidable. According to news reports, there were a lot of boats on the lake at the time of the accident. Perhaps he had to water-taxi out of the way to avoid them.TimTaylor wrote:It looked to me he had a lot of water behind him when he started his takeoff run.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Re: Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
Looks to me like the fact that he clipped the tree was a blessing in disguise - he was already stalled before that and started dropping his right wing - hitting the tree actually dissipated some of that energy and let him smash the water at quite a bit lower velocity.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois
- FastEddieB
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Re: Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
Once airborne, the plane is simply flying in a parcel of air which is itself moving. Turning “downwind” is no different from turning “upwind” as far as lift goes.TimTaylor wrote:Just as he was leaving ground effect, he turned downwind and lost a lot of lift (ground speed does not increase instantaneously).
This is also being hashed out over on the Pilots of America site. As usual, gusts and shear are creeping into the discussion. While they may have an effect on the plane, neither has anything to do with whether the plane is turning upwind or downwind.
Re: Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
As I said, the plane does not instantaneously increase in ground speed as you turn downwind. If you had a 15 knot headwind followed by a 15 knot tailwind, the plane doesn't instantly gain 30 knots groundspeed, but we may disagree on this.
Retired from flying.
- FastEddieB
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Re: Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
Ground speed doesn’t matter. The plane has no “connection” to the ground once in the air. It’s no longer the frame of reference, the air mass is. And the direction of the movement of the airmass over the ground makes no difference to the plane’s aerodynamic performance, including tendency to stall.
Re: Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
Ground speed doesn't matter except as an indication of relative wind. The plane has a certain momentum to overcome. You don't agree so enough said.
Retired from flying.
Re: Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
A 15 knot loss of airspeed (as in a, non-microburst, wind shear event) would definitely impact the performance of the airplane. Once the shear event occurs (energy loss), there is a lag in the response time, for the aircraft to recover/overcome that loss in performance.
Bill Ince
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator
- FastEddieB
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Re: Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
Of course. Stipulated.Wm.Ince wrote:A 15 knot loss of airspeed (as in a, non-microburst, wind shear event)...
But not relevant to a discussion about the effect of a downwind turn on lift and/or stall.
Re: Another A5 Icon crash 7/27/19
FastEddie, you are correct but have an over-simplified understanding of the situation. You are ignoring the effects of momentum (energy) of the aircraft that must be overcome, especially if the turn is quick. Why does your car try to go straight when you go around a curve at high speed?
Retired from flying.