Class D/C/B endorsement question

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AviatorCrafty
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Re: Class D/C/B endorsement question

Postby AviatorCrafty » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:08 pm

During my training, I flew into C/D airspace, however the location of the nearest class B airport made it impractical to fly there so my instructor gave me the B/C/D endorsement, however put a slash through all the B's and wrote "Limitations: no operations in Class B airspace" at the bottom, that's currently my goal to get that portion back one day.
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Re: Class D/C/B endorsement question

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:26 pm

As an instructor in my opinion what your instructor did was wrong. You either endorse that you have done the training of 61.325, or don't make the endorsement. There is no regulatory requirement for flight training in each of the airspaces. Ground training on the operation in class B would be sufficient. That is kind of like doing a tail wheel endorsement and trying to add a limitation that it only applies to a J3 Cub because that is the airplane you did the training in.

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Re: Class D/C/B endorsement question

Postby AviatorCrafty » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:31 pm

Never saw it that way, the airport I fly out of has class C airspace next to it and I fly through it a lot. I've also flown into some class D airports too.
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Re: Class D/C/B endorsement question

Postby drseti » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:34 pm

3Dreaming wrote: There is no regulatory requirement for flight training in each of the airspaces. Ground training on the operation in class B would be sufficient.


Not just sufficient, Tom, but required. If the instructor hasn't at least given ground instruction on Class B procedures and restrictions, I don't think he or she should provide the endorsement.
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Re: Class D/C/B endorsement question

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:01 pm

drseti wrote:
3Dreaming wrote: There is no regulatory requirement for flight training in each of the airspaces. Ground training on the operation in class B would be sufficient.


Not just sufficient, Tom, but required. If the instructor hasn't at least given ground instruction on Class B procedures and restrictions, I don't think he or she should provide the endorsement.


Absolutely training on class B airspace is required, but I think you are taking what I said out of context.

The point is that there is not a requirement for actual flight training in class B airspace, but you must certainly have training on the rules for operation in class B airspace. C and D airspace as well. Again either you have met the training requirements of 61.325 or you haven't, there is no in between. The only flight training needed to complete the endorsement is 3 take offs and landings at an airport with an operating control tower, the rest can be done with ground training.

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Re: Class D/C/B endorsement question

Postby drseti » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:39 pm

I think we're both saying the same thing, Tom.
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Re: Class D/C/B endorsement question

Postby AviatorCrafty » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:57 pm

So is my endorsement illegal? I'm actually kind of worried now :shock:
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Re: Class D/C/B endorsement question

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:12 pm

AviatorCrafty wrote:So is my endorsement illegal? I'm actually kind of worried now :shock:


Did the instructor give you ground training on the the flight rules for operation in class B airspace?

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Re: Class D/C/B endorsement question

Postby AviatorCrafty » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:15 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
AviatorCrafty wrote:So is my endorsement illegal? I'm actually kind of worried now :shock:


Did the instructor give you ground training on the the flight rules for operation in class B airspace?


Yeah we went over it. We just never went flying in actual class bravo airspace. He told me since we never flew in class B airspace he couldn't faithfully endorse me to do so.
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Re: Class D/C/B endorsement question

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:51 pm

AviatorCrafty wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
AviatorCrafty wrote:So is my endorsement illegal? I'm actually kind of worried now :shock:


Did the instructor give you ground training on the the flight rules for operation in class B airspace?


Yeah we went over it. We just never went flying in actual class bravo airspace. He told me since we never flew in class B airspace he couldn't faithfully endorse me to do so.


Well it sounds like you received the training you needed, but the instructor tried to impose limits when he shouldn't have.

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Re: Class D/C/B endorsement question

Postby rcpilot » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:22 pm

My instructor did sort of the same thing. Before my check ride he did not sign off the controlled airspace endorsement even though we had had a lot of Class D takeoffs/landings and some Class C. His reasoning being that the DPE would not be able to question me too much on it. Post-license we worked on the endorsement and initially he only signed off on me for Class D. On subsequent flights we did more Class C work but never actually flew through Class B(we did use flight following once but were not cleared through the Class B and flew under it). Subsequently he signed me off for all 3. I have flown through Class B several times using flight following. Sometimes I've thought it better to just fly over it as they usually have me flying at 6500' and have me deviate off my intended route.

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Re: Class D/C/B endorsement question

Postby drseti » Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:51 pm

rcpilot wrote: Before my check ride he did not sign off the controlled airspace endorsement even though we had had a lot of Class D takeoffs/landings and some Class C. His reasoning being that the DPE would not be able to question me too much on it.


Speaking as a DPE, my thoughts are just the opposite. When I see that an applicant already has the airspace endorsement, I am less likely to hammer on airspace during the oral. Besides, the DPE is never allowed to go beyond what's in the PTS.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
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