I am a certificated pilot caught in this Sport Pilot Catch-22 dilemma (whereby my last medical was denied MANY years ago)...
I am really looking forward to flying SP/LSA with an engine attached and not just gliders...
Does anyone have any updates about this unfair Catch-22 issue?
Sport Pilot with a Denied Medical
Moderator: drseti
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pilotgary111
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 5:29 pm
- Location: MA
Sport Pilot with a Denied Medical
Last edited by pilotgary111 on Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Catch-22 dilemma? 
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Gary,
While you may think the rule is unfair to you, it is what it is. If you were denied a medical, you can't fly as a Sport Pilot. The only hope you have is if you can now pass a medical, or at least get a Special Issuance. Once you have one, you can then let it lapse and fly as a Sport Pilot in the future.
While you may think the rule is unfair to you, it is what it is. If you were denied a medical, you can't fly as a Sport Pilot. The only hope you have is if you can now pass a medical, or at least get a Special Issuance. Once you have one, you can then let it lapse and fly as a Sport Pilot in the future.
Roger Fane
Former owner of a 2006 Flight Design CTsw
Former owner of a 2006 Flight Design CTsw
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Jeff Tipton
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:23 pm
- Location: Dickson, TN
If the medical is a big deal, then as previous mentioned, the motor glider option is great if you have the means to purchase one or if you're lucky enough to be near somewhere that rents them.
They have a Diamond Extreme at Sporty's academy about an hour away from my area. The Diamond Xtreme/Super Dimona is essentially a DA-20 Eclipse with a Rotax and a longer wing. You can even get a turbocharged 914!! You can fly as high as the airplane will allow you, fly at night, faster than 120 kts...
I'm definitely going to get my private/glider with self launch as soon as I can afford it.
They have a Diamond Extreme at Sporty's academy about an hour away from my area. The Diamond Xtreme/Super Dimona is essentially a DA-20 Eclipse with a Rotax and a longer wing. You can even get a turbocharged 914!! You can fly as high as the airplane will allow you, fly at night, faster than 120 kts...
I'm definitely going to get my private/glider with self launch as soon as I can afford it.
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pilotgary111
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 5:29 pm
- Location: MA
4th Class Medical Certificate
What ever happened to the proposed 4th class medical and what was it all about?
former USAF KC-135A pilot..now gliders and a SP wanna-be
Commercial, ASEL-MEL-Instrument
A&P Mechanic
Commercial, ASEL-MEL-Instrument
A&P Mechanic
Re: 4th Class Medical Certificate
pilotgary111 wrote:What ever happened to the proposed 4th class medical and what was it all about?
Re: 4th Class Medical Certificate
Haven't heard anything about it, so I assume that it has died with the advent of the sportpilot/drivers license medical.gswillis wrote:pilotgary111 wrote:What ever happened to the proposed 4th class medical and what was it all about?
Personally, I don't think that any "4th class" medical is a good idea, unless it is to replace the 3rd class medical for PPL. Sport Pilot is doing fine with the Driver's License medical. Sure, some people with denied medicals got screwed, but they really are no better or worse off than they were before sport pilot.
Faa, covering themselves
To be a pilot for so long, and then be denied due to medical is hard enough I guess, but to not be allowed to fly on a drivers license such as newbies without medicals is really adding to the injury.
I would guess, after working for Government so long myself, that this is just the FAA's way of covering their own butts.
I would guess that the FAA does not want egg on it's face in the event something happens, not due to just medical problem, but due to any problem in aviation, that upon investigation it was found out pilot was denied PPL on medical but got sports ticket with drivers license.
The media would grab onto this and run with it, making the FAA look like idiots, firings would take place, scapegoating, the works and the sports ticket would go right down the drain.
A scenario would be I guess an engine failure with some injury, or not, where the pilot was denied due to moderate blood pressure problem not well controlled or even taking meds for mild depression, a no no with the FAA, but yet with so many years experience, flying is like driving and the condition has really minimal effect, if any. Yes the press would blow this one up as mentioned above, and away goes the sports ticket.
yozz
I would guess, after working for Government so long myself, that this is just the FAA's way of covering their own butts.
I would guess that the FAA does not want egg on it's face in the event something happens, not due to just medical problem, but due to any problem in aviation, that upon investigation it was found out pilot was denied PPL on medical but got sports ticket with drivers license.
The media would grab onto this and run with it, making the FAA look like idiots, firings would take place, scapegoating, the works and the sports ticket would go right down the drain.
A scenario would be I guess an engine failure with some injury, or not, where the pilot was denied due to moderate blood pressure problem not well controlled or even taking meds for mild depression, a no no with the FAA, but yet with so many years experience, flying is like driving and the condition has really minimal effect, if any. Yes the press would blow this one up as mentioned above, and away goes the sports ticket.
yozz
4th Class Medical
This should clearly explain this RUMOR, never having any basis of fact !
!http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medi ... portpilot/
Remember to obtain a Sport Pilot Certificate you have to self declare our health status.
( Of course NONE of us would LIE, would we ? )
The Canadians do have a Class 4 Medical ! ( only for Ultra-lites )
It is self declared, singed by a CAME or family Physician.
Murrell
!http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medi ... portpilot/
Remember to obtain a Sport Pilot Certificate you have to self declare our health status.
( Of course NONE of us would LIE, would we ? )
The Canadians do have a Class 4 Medical ! ( only for Ultra-lites )
It is self declared, singed by a CAME or family Physician.
Murrell
self declaration
A self declaration means nothing.
You can declare yourself fit to fly, and perhaps you are fit to fly despite all sorts of disqualifying conditions, but in reality, you have no professional basis to make such a declaration stick if push comes to shove.
You can also take a ton of drugs and declare that they don't affect your ability. Also you can be under the influence of say cough medicine, nasal spray, allergy meds, etc. and declare yourself not under the influence, even though you are under the influence while believing you are not.
The point is, you are not professionally certified to even certify yourself. A declaration is a belief, not based on professional fact, just on belief and perhaps a bit of hearsay, but not professionally founded as by a licensed MD or voodoo practicioner.
yozz
You can declare yourself fit to fly, and perhaps you are fit to fly despite all sorts of disqualifying conditions, but in reality, you have no professional basis to make such a declaration stick if push comes to shove.
You can also take a ton of drugs and declare that they don't affect your ability. Also you can be under the influence of say cough medicine, nasal spray, allergy meds, etc. and declare yourself not under the influence, even though you are under the influence while believing you are not.
The point is, you are not professionally certified to even certify yourself. A declaration is a belief, not based on professional fact, just on belief and perhaps a bit of hearsay, but not professionally founded as by a licensed MD or voodoo practicioner.
yozz
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CharlieTango
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:04 am
- Location: Mammoth Lakes, California
yozz,
a pilot (with or without a self certification requirement) needs to assess and self certify every time he flies.
The acronym “I’m safe” is a good rule of thumb for deciding whether or not to fly:
* I Illness – Is the pilot well enough to fly?
* M Medication - Sure there are no side effects?
* S Stress – Calm, rational, and not under pressure to fly?
* A Alcohol – none at all?
* F Fatigue – Well slept and alert?
* E Eating – Blood sugar correct?
There is a lot of discussion and information published on pilots' fitness to fly, its not a joke.
Way better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air then to be in the air wishing you were on the ground
a pilot (with or without a self certification requirement) needs to assess and self certify every time he flies.
The acronym “I’m safe” is a good rule of thumb for deciding whether or not to fly:
* I Illness – Is the pilot well enough to fly?
* M Medication - Sure there are no side effects?
* S Stress – Calm, rational, and not under pressure to fly?
* A Alcohol – none at all?
* F Fatigue – Well slept and alert?
* E Eating – Blood sugar correct?
There is a lot of discussion and information published on pilots' fitness to fly, its not a joke.
Way better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air then to be in the air wishing you were on the ground
right charlie tango
What you say about self certification of your "actual" ability to fly, rather than your "legal" ability is hitting it on the nose.
When you sign the doc at the flight schools office certifying you are not ill, not under drugs, harrassed by wife, whatever, it is done momentarily simply as a cover the flight schools ass in the event something happens. The FAA is also covering their ass with their certification.
After you fracture every bone in your body after an accident, and the FAA goes to your doc and examines your medical records, showing you have dementia, bad heart, bad lungs, bad blood, bad children, you can simply say, he never told you that, you had your ipod plugged in your ears.
A good lawyer can spin that for you.
Now, as for yourself, before going to fly, as you have said, you have to "self assess".
Only you know your own abilities and you have to be honest with yourself, something pretty hard to do for most people.
With my big 20 hours in log book, there were times after the ground check of plane, the runup, and all the other info flying into my head, I wanted to walk out of the plane go home and go to sleep. I was in no mood to fly, but that usually went away when I got up there and forgot I was tired.
I have not yet soloed. And even if and when the CFI gives me the green light, will I be mentally up to it? Will I be tired and groggy after going through the whole routine?
I habitually get up at 3 am each morning, so by the time the afternoon rolls around, I need a nap, or snooze. I try hard to get the lesson at 9 am, but sometimes they delay and fart around at flight school and I don't get going to severl hours later.
I guess if he threatened to deprive me of my bagel each morning, with lox and cream cheese, I would do it. But I guess all newbies have this feeling.
If he told me to go solo, and I did feel a bit wiped out from the lesson or haven't slept well the night before and was punchy, I would decline, of course. CFI knows my abilities through his experience, I know myself through my own experience.
I know I need to eat breakfast, I need to fly early, I need to drink some coffee and need to take a pit stop before entering the plane. I need to be reasonably alert, and to solo, need to do it early. Also need to be calm, that is my strength when flying, I move things very slowly and deliberately, perhaps too slowly for some instructors as I take my time lifting off on roll. I take my sweet ass time when operating the plane, perhaps some CFI's are up tight or in a hurry.
I guess the question here would be, according to reports of accidents by NSTB, how many were due to pilot fatigue or illness?
Perhaps the medical exam for PPL should be looking at other factors instead of placing emphasis on conditions that may very well not affect a person's ability to fly safely.
yozz
When you sign the doc at the flight schools office certifying you are not ill, not under drugs, harrassed by wife, whatever, it is done momentarily simply as a cover the flight schools ass in the event something happens. The FAA is also covering their ass with their certification.
After you fracture every bone in your body after an accident, and the FAA goes to your doc and examines your medical records, showing you have dementia, bad heart, bad lungs, bad blood, bad children, you can simply say, he never told you that, you had your ipod plugged in your ears.
A good lawyer can spin that for you.
Now, as for yourself, before going to fly, as you have said, you have to "self assess".
Only you know your own abilities and you have to be honest with yourself, something pretty hard to do for most people.
With my big 20 hours in log book, there were times after the ground check of plane, the runup, and all the other info flying into my head, I wanted to walk out of the plane go home and go to sleep. I was in no mood to fly, but that usually went away when I got up there and forgot I was tired.
I have not yet soloed. And even if and when the CFI gives me the green light, will I be mentally up to it? Will I be tired and groggy after going through the whole routine?
I habitually get up at 3 am each morning, so by the time the afternoon rolls around, I need a nap, or snooze. I try hard to get the lesson at 9 am, but sometimes they delay and fart around at flight school and I don't get going to severl hours later.
I guess if he threatened to deprive me of my bagel each morning, with lox and cream cheese, I would do it. But I guess all newbies have this feeling.
If he told me to go solo, and I did feel a bit wiped out from the lesson or haven't slept well the night before and was punchy, I would decline, of course. CFI knows my abilities through his experience, I know myself through my own experience.
I know I need to eat breakfast, I need to fly early, I need to drink some coffee and need to take a pit stop before entering the plane. I need to be reasonably alert, and to solo, need to do it early. Also need to be calm, that is my strength when flying, I move things very slowly and deliberately, perhaps too slowly for some instructors as I take my time lifting off on roll. I take my sweet ass time when operating the plane, perhaps some CFI's are up tight or in a hurry.
I guess the question here would be, according to reports of accidents by NSTB, how many were due to pilot fatigue or illness?
Perhaps the medical exam for PPL should be looking at other factors instead of placing emphasis on conditions that may very well not affect a person's ability to fly safely.
yozz