Light Sport gliders?

[Hambone]

Is there such a thing as a Light Sport Glider license? If so, how does this differ from a normal Sport Pilot license?

I have seen a company advertising Private (?) Pilot training in a Pipistrel Alpha, with a license in as little as 10 hours. AFAIK, the Alpha doesn’t meet FAA motorglider criteria, so this is confusing. It seems that they are providing a Private Pilot - Glider License license in a powered aircraft.

So does this mean than one can fly at night, above 10,000 MSL, or >120 KIAS on a Private Pilot - Glider license? Or on a failed medical?

https://www.pipistrel-usa.com/newslette ... gust-2020/

[JJ Campbell]

Is there such a thing as a Light Sport Glider license? If so, how does this differ from a normal Sport Pilot license?

I have seen a company advertising Private (?) Pilot training in a Pipistrel Alpha, with a license in as little as 10 hours. AFAIK, the Alpha doesn’t meet FAA motorglider criteria, so this is confusing. It seems that they are providing a Private Pilot - Glider License license in a powered aircraft.

So does this mean than one can fly at night, above 10,000 MSL, or >120 KIAS on a Private Pilot - Glider license? Or on a failed medical?

https://www.pipistrel-usa.com/newslette ... gust-2020/

Good question. Nothing I've read about the Alpha Trainer would lead me to believe it qualified as a glider.

[Hambone]

I did question this. The answer I received was "With respect to your question, that regulation applies to "Normal" category gliders. Our Pipistrel Alpha meets and exceeds the light sport ASTM standards for gliders. Essentially, the FAA created different standards for "Normal" category gliders and "Light Sport" gliders."

If so, a Private Pilot - Glider license sounds less restrictive and therefore more useful than a Sport Pilot license!

[drseti]

So does this mean than one can fly at night, above 10,000 MSL, or >120 KIAS on a Private Pilot - Glider license? Or on a failed medical?

Exactly! In fact, gliders and airships are the only things one can fly if one's latest medical was denied, suspended, or withdrawn.

There is also an easy glider add-on under Sport Pilot rules, which SP or PP Airplane pilots can get with fairly limited training, no written, and no checkride. For details see my webinar "Category and Class" at:

http://avsport.org/webinars/videos/category.mp4

[Hambone]

Thanks, Paul.

So is there a definitive list of ASTM-legal light sport motor gliders? I can’t find one online.

[drseti]

Neither can I, Ham, but you can check the specs. Any motorglider with 2 seats maximum, a fixed landing gear, a fixed or featherable (but not a constant speed) prop, 1320 pounds or less max gross weight, 45 kts or less clean calibrated stall speed, and a Vmax of 120 kts or less is by definition an LSA (no matter how it is registered), and can thus be flown under SP rules.

I know that the Lambada, Phoenix, and Pipistrel Sinus all qualify.

[Hambone]

So... don't all LSAs fit that criteria? If so, why is anyone flying on a Sport Pilot license when they could be under Private Pilot - Glider?

According to the FAA, to qualify as a motorglider, (weight/span squared) <=.62 lbs/sq ft. At the Pipistrel Alpha's MTOW of 1212 lbs, this is 1.02 lbs/sq ft. For the Alpha to meet the motorglider criteria, it would have a useful load of 118 lbs over its 615 lb empty weight!

If this is indeed true, you can apparently fly an Alpha at night and above 10,000', and internationally on a Private Pilot - Glider ticket with a self-launch endorsement.

[JJ Campbell]

I find this very confusing. I am a Sport Pilot ASEL. If I purchased a Pipistrel Alpha Trainer, would I need a glider with self-launch add-on before I could fly it?

[Hambone]

I find this very confusing. I am a Sport Pilot ASEL. If I purchased a Pipistrel Alpha Trainer, would I need a glider with self-launch add-on before I could fly it?

No, but if you did, you could fly it at night, above 10,000’ MSL, to Mexico or Canada, and on a failed medical. My question is just how the Alpha fits the ASTM motorglider criteria. Amazingly, I can’t find that criteria online without forking out $57 for the ASTM document.

[drseti]

I wonder if Pipistrel maybe makes bolt-on extended wingtips for the Alpha, to give it sufficient span to turn it into a legal glider?

[Hambone]

I wonder if Pipistrel maybe makes bolt-on extended wingtips for the Alpha, to give it sufficient span to turn it into a legal glider?

My thoughts exactly. The wings in the ad photo do look longer than the normal Alpha’s.

[drseti]

Even with an extended wing, there's something wrong here. The Alpha spec sheet lists a VNE of 135 kts. To be an LSA, a glider must have a VNE less than or equal to 120 kts. So, that flight school has to do Private glider ratings - you can only do SP glider add-ons in an LSA.

[AviatorCrafty]

I'm a Sport Pilot ASEL right now going to start glider transition training here soon and will simultaneously upgrade to Private from Sport. One thing that's confused me is if a Private Pilot - Glider can fly at night, I've been told both yes and no, no as in you aren't supposed to fly and night and yes as in as long as you're in an appropriately equipped glider. The regs aren't very clear as you don't have to demonstrate night flight knowledge on the checkride yet there's no rule specifically prohibiting glider pilots from flying at night since they are private pilots and that's an understood privilege of private pilot. Sport Pilot glider pilots, on the other hand, can't since sport pilots by nature can't fly at night.

Of course, there's no lift at night but something like the Pipistrel Sinus or Lambada mentioned earlier would be most likely equipped for night VFR so as a private pilot - glider endorsed for self launch would be able to fly at night then perhaps.

[drseti]

Of course, there's no lift at night

OK, maybe no thermals. But they aren't the only source of lift. A stiff wind perpendicular to a terrain ridge will give you updraft on the windward, and downdraft on the leeward side. So there's no reason that one couldn't use ridge lift on a windy night

The only problem I would have with night flight in other than a motorglider would be seeing the terrain to land out.

[3Dreaming]

Yes there is a such a thing as a light sport glider, and there has been at least one aircraft to meet ASTM standards and registered as a light sport glider. There are also several standard category and experimental exhibition registered gliders that meet the definition. The key is what the airworthiness certificate says in regards to how it is registered when it comes to pilot privileges. I looked up the N number of the airplane in the picture, and it is indeed registered as an airplane. A pilot with glider only privileges can not fly that aircraft.