Ah, but the automotive industry has one advantage that GA will never enjoy: massive economies of scale.Warmi wrote:GA should operate like the automotive industry.
Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
Moderator: drseti
Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
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Prof H Paul Shuch
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AvSport LLC, KLHV
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Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
drseti wrote:Ah, but the automotive industry has one advantage that GA will never enjoy: massive economies of scale.Warmi wrote:GA should operate like the automotive industry.
That is true unfortunately but ... I was talking from the regulatory point of view.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois
Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
Actually it is not that it couldn't be certified at 1320, but that it could never be a light sport aircraftdrseti wrote:And not just "could not be." Could never be.3Dreaming wrote: When the original sport pilot rules went into effect the FAA was adamant that an airplane that had previously been certified at a weight above 1320 could not be re certified at 1320.
Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
I'm pretty sure the automotive industry has some pretty significant regulations that they have to follow.Warmi wrote:drseti wrote:Ah, but the automotive industry has one advantage that GA will never enjoy: massive economies of scale.Warmi wrote:GA should operate like the automotive industry.
That is true unfortunately but ... I was talking from the regulatory point of view.
Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
Point taken.3Dreaming wrote: Actually it is not that it couldn't be certified at 1320, but that it could never be a light sport aircraft
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
They do but that’s not what I am talking about.3Dreaming wrote:I'm pretty sure the automotive industry has some pretty significant regulations that they have to follow.Warmi wrote:drseti wrote:
Ah, but the automotive industry has one advantage that GA will never enjoy: massive economies of scale.
That is true unfortunately but ... I was talking from the regulatory point of view.
We could be arguing here all night long but why ... just go to any automotive forum and see the type discussions they are having - it is is all about... should I do this and how do I do this, none of the regulatory “how many FAA angels can fit on the head of a pin” we see discussed here and on other ga aviation forums.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois
Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
The 120kt CAS limit is a limit for *manufacturers* to design to, not for pilots to abide by. Once an airplane is accepted by the FAA as an LSA, you as a pilot can wring whatever performance out of it that you can. If the aircraft type regularly and easily exceeds LSA performance limits, that's a problem between the FAA and the manufacturer, and the pilot need not be concerned at all (unless the FAA revokes the LSA designation for all existing airframes of that type...but then you have a pretty nice lawsuit against the manufacturer).
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
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Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
I'm pretty sure sport pilots can't modify an E-LSA to exceed speed limitations that the pilot also has to obey. Just like a sport pilot can't climb above 10,000 MSL even if the plane has a higher service ceiling.MrMorden wrote:The 120kt CAS limit is a limit for *manufacturers* to design to, not for pilots to abide by. Once an airplane is accepted by the FAA as an LSA, you as a pilot can wring whatever performance out of it that you can. If the aircraft type regularly and easily exceeds LSA performance limits, that's a problem between the FAA and the manufacturer, and the pilot need not be concerned at all (unless the FAA revokes the LSA designation for all existing airframes of that type...but then you have a pretty nice lawsuit against the manufacturer).
Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
Sport Pilots can legally fly up to 10,000 ft MSL, or 2,000 ft AGL, whichever is higher. The FAA doesn't want you to fly into high terrain; it could ruin your day.fatsportpilot wrote:I'm pretty sure sport pilots can't modify an E-LSA to exceed speed limitations that the pilot also has to obey. Just like a sport pilot can't climb above 10,000 MSL even if the plane has a higher service ceiling.
Stan Cooper (K4DRD)
Private Pilot ASEL LSRI
Experimental AMD CH601XLi-B Zodiac LSA N601KE (KSTS)
Private Pilot ASEL LSRI
Experimental AMD CH601XLi-B Zodiac LSA N601KE (KSTS)
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Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
I know. I mentioned that in a post one page ago but I was giving a fast example and didn't think it was necessary to be that specific.Scooper wrote:Sport Pilots can legally fly up to 10,000 ft MSL, or 2,000 ft AGL, whichever is higher. The FAA doesn't want you to fly into high terrain; it could ruin your day.fatsportpilot wrote:I'm pretty sure sport pilots can't modify an E-LSA to exceed speed limitations that the pilot also has to obey. Just like a sport pilot can't climb above 10,000 MSL even if the plane has a higher service ceiling.
Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
There is no speed limit for the pilot! The limit is for the airplane. If the airplane is modified to where it is to fast, then it can no longer be a LSA. If it is no longer a LSA, then it can't be flown by a by a sport pilot.fatsportpilot wrote:I'm pretty sure sport pilots can't modify an E-LSA to exceed speed limitations that the pilot also has to obey. Just like a sport pilot can't climb above 10,000 MSL even if the plane has a higher service ceiling.MrMorden wrote:The 120kt CAS limit is a limit for *manufacturers* to design to, not for pilots to abide by. Once an airplane is accepted by the FAA as an LSA, you as a pilot can wring whatever performance out of it that you can. If the aircraft type regularly and easily exceeds LSA performance limits, that's a problem between the FAA and the manufacturer, and the pilot need not be concerned at all (unless the FAA revokes the LSA designation for all existing airframes of that type...but then you have a pretty nice lawsuit against the manufacturer).
Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
Not just Sport Pilots. Nobody can modify a E-LSA to exceed the 120 knot Vh limitation, or the 45 knot clean calibrated stall speed limitation, or add a retractable landing gear, or install a third seat, or constant-speed prop, or a second engine, or cabin pressurization, or anything else that would void its Special Airworthiness Certificate. If it's an E-LSA, it has to stay an E-LSA, no matter who is flying it.fatsportpilot wrote: I'm pretty sure sport pilots can't modify an E-LSA to exceed speed limitations
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
I guess as long as there are rules to follow someone will be out there trying to circumnavigate those rules. If 120 kts isn't fast enough for you then go get your private pilot rating and buy a Mooney or something even faster.
Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
Actually I'm pretty sure that a ELSA could be modified with any of those items. It of course could no longer be a ELSA, but it could be changed to experimental exhibition.drseti wrote:Not just Sport Pilots. Nobody can modify a E-LSA to exceed the 120 knot Vh limitation, or the 45 knot clean calibrated stall speed limitation, or add a retractable landing gear, or install a third seat, or constant-speed prop, or a second engine, or cabin pressurization, or anything else that would void its Special Airworthiness Certificate. If it's an E-LSA, it has to stay an E-LSA, no matter who is flying it.fatsportpilot wrote: I'm pretty sure sport pilots can't modify an E-LSA to exceed speed limitations
Re: Limit to 120 KCAS at sea level only with custom EMS - still an LSA?
I think Experimental R&D is a possibility. Maybe even Experimental Exhibition. Both of those come with significant operating limitations. Certainly could no longer be an E-LSA (or any other kind of LSA). I doubt it could be approved by a DAR for an E-AB airworthiness certificate, unless it was completely disassembled down to raw materials, rebuilt from the ground up, and a proper build log generated. But, if you're going to do all that, why not just start from scratch?3Dreaming wrote: Actually I'm pretty sure that a ELSA could be modified with any of those items. It of course could no longer be a ELSA, but it could be changed to experimental exhibition.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US