New FAA rules make flying more affordable!

[3Dreaming]

The 20 hour limit set by the FAA was for the airplanes they envisioned pilots flying, and not the airplanes they turned into. I think a person could do it in 20 hours in a simple, and slow airplane.

[acensor]

Sport pilot and LSA worked out for me, but it definitalyy has not, as hoped, become much of a robust path into aviation for those the many for the many who would love to, but for whom the cost or time were and are significant, often overwhelming, barriers.
As if 2015 there were only about 5000 who had come into flying by getting sport pilot licenses. Barely a drop in the bucket.


From an earlier post...
"...I believe the cost of aircraft ownership is cost prohibitive for most. However, renting a newer LSA is about the same price as renting an older Cessna or Piper. Regardless of how many hours it takes, you should be able to get a Sport Pilot certificate in less hours than it would take you to get a Private.."

The fewer hours, and the approx typical $4000 training for Sport v.s. the approx $8000 for private, and in some cases the no-medical-needed, as would the lower fuel consumption of LSA's, would SEEM to create a much wider and easier door into flying for many.

But very few light schools or CFI's have LSA's, or (LSA class standard aircraft)available to rent.
Even fewer flying clubs have LSA's.
(I even encountered one of the few operators that have LSA's can't that rent to a sport pilot because their insurer required all pilots have a current medical.)
Even many of the FBO's that say their CFI can offer Sport Pilot training don't even have an LSA that the student could do their required cross country with..
Back around 2009, when I first investigated the sport pilot option, a very LSA oriented operator that sold and trained in Quicksilver LSA,s told me they could train me but they would not let me rent or use their LSA for my required cross country.

So I bit the bullet went to one of the few operations actually suitable, in Prosser Washington 400 mikes away, prepared to invest the time and cost of staying there a week, on top of the training cost, and started my sport pilot training; but quit after a day, in significant part because I realized I'd come home with a useless license....because the nearest FBO with an LSA to rent was a 3.5 hour drive from home. And that, no-LSA available for rent near home, is a common reality, even now 13 years into the LSA story, making the LSA dream sort of a cruel tease for many (most?) of those it was supposed to open doors for.

It came down to unless I could afford to buy an LSA, game over.
Here's the thing: For a wanna-be pilot for whom the $8000 private pilot training is a serious barrier, there's even less chance that considering spending $35K on a used LSA ($35K is the bottom of used LSA market), let alone a new one starting at $90K and up could be a realistic option.

So no...Contrary to this tooic'ssubject line...the LSA sport pilot rules did not to any meaningful degree "make flying more affordable p" to those who it was unfordable before. Few winners in that constituency. And the fight schools and CFI's didn't get the hoped for flood of new students.

Oh, and, lest we forget the collateral damage:
The LSA initiative has essentially killed the ones robustly growing ultralight community. The category of ultralight called " ultralight Trainer" and the ultralight instructor were eliminated. So no there's practically no doorway into ultralight flying anymore. And that was one low-cost wait to get into flying on the budget limited, that is mostly closed now.

So who are the winners?
The minority of wannabe pilots for whom price is irrelevant can get some really elegant and capable LSA's and get their licenses somewhat more easily and faster than of going for private not have to deal with Aero-medical exams.
Plus the LSA.manufacterers who sell into that market.

Possibly the bigest group of winners are aging private pilots uneasy about going in for ther next medical exam who sold their Cessnas and purchased an LSA, or had a older plane that fit under the LSA criteria, were able to keep flying under Sport pilot limitation rules. Numbers unknown bjt believed ti be far greater than the number of pilots who hold actual sport pilot licenses.

And, finally, there's one _indirect_ , arguably desirable, result of the sport pilot initiative:
The existence of the sport pilot program, and the fact that thousands of pilots had been flying for more than decade under those rules without medical exams, and no indication that flight without medical exams was creating a safety hazard, was a pice of the argument that he eventually allowed the new Basic Medical rules to pass.
And as a result of those, many private pilots who might've tried to do a flyer home now continuing to be able to float their non-LSA aircraft.

[acensor]

"....The 20 hour limit set by the FAA was for the airplanes they envisioned pilots flying, and not the airplanes they turned into. I think a person could do it in 20 hours in a simple, and slow airplane."

You're IMO quite right that few sport pilot students get to their license in 20 hours. But remember, for that matter, very few private pilot students do it in 40 hours.

My point is that at least that's one part of the sport pilot initiative DID basically materialize:
That is, on average getting a Sport Pilot license will take significantly _fewer_ hours and fewer dollars than a Private.
With the big gotch'ya being the limited availability of sport pilot trianing, and the even more limited availability of rental Light Sport aircraft making the apparent easier door an illusion. (See my previous post for longer rant on that.)

Alex

[TimTaylor]

I'm not sure what is the point of this thread. The Sport Pilot certificate is a good thing. I, for one, have been flying for the past 5 years because of it, and will be able to continue flying because of it. People can be disgruntled because new LSA are expensive, but you can buy an old certified aircraft or rent an almost new LSA if you can find one. It is also easier and less expensive for a new pilot to get a Sport Pilot certificate versus a Private Pilot certificate.

[akroguy]

Possibly the bigest group of winners are aging private pilots uneasy about going in for ther next medical exam who sold their Cessnas and purchased an LSA, or had a older plane that fit under the LSA criteria, were able to keep flying under Sport pilot limitation rules. Numbers unknown bjt believed ti be far greater than the number of pilots who hold actual sport pilot licenses.

This is precisely where I fit in to the LSA constituency. I started out getting a Private in an Air Force Aero Club in my 30's. It was great training but totally unsuitable for renting or traveling. I built an RV8, got my fill of acro and formation flying, did some traveling, then we had a child...that makes THREE in the family...with a two seat airplane. So, sold the RV8 (sad day, but I got over it), bought a Cessna 180 Skywagon, took some trips, hauled some stuff, then life and finances changed. So, after going Experimental, then certified, I'm now SLSA with a Sportstar in the hangar at my house. As an early 50's guy in good health, I know that could change any time. I also know that owning a 60 year old airplane was going to get very expensive very soon (the 180 was nearing TBO).

I chose to renew this summer with a Class III, to re-set the 10 year option for Basic Med (which is mostly nonsense as I see it) OR, just go with the DL medical and stay pure LSA into the forseeable future. Our son will be out of high school in another year, will likely join the service, so it will be just me and Momma again. Feeding a decades old spam can with stupid expensive avgas and equally stupid certified parts with two empty seats in the back just doesn't work anymore. We'll go slower, pack lighter, but all the while in a like-new airplane, on premium mogas.

[rideandfly]

Enjoy flying low & slow lately, currently have a Basic/Med, when that runs out will fly with a driver's license in the Vagabond.

My two seat Vag has AutoGas STC, so I mix 100LL with non ethanol auto gas, the C85 runs great on the mix at lower cost. First airplane owned without electrical system, so not required to meet ADS-B requirements. Plan to do annuals with the A&P/IA looking over my shoulder, another savings, used to do that with previous aircraft owned, too.

Here's a list of FAA certified aircraft that can be flown under Light Sport rules, posting this for folks learning to fly or already flying:

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/lig ... Models.pdf

[TimTaylor]

Bill, do you land your airplane on any paved runways such as KIPJ? Does it handle OK on pavement?

[rideandfly]

Bill, do you land your airplane on any paved runways such as KIPJ? Does it handle OK on pavement?

Flew into IPJ with the Vag and it's OK on pavement. It has responsive rudder and elevator that need to be respected. I'm getting back to basics mostly on grass for now and enjoy it. Like I said, enjoy flying low & slow in the Vag.

[TimTaylor]

Bill, do you land your airplane on any paved runways such as KIPJ? Does it handle OK on pavement?

Flew into IPJ with the Vag and it's OK on pavement. It has responsive rudder and elevator that need to be respected. I'm getting back to basics mostly on grass for now and enjoy it. Like I said, enjoy flying low & slow in the Vag.

I got 55 hours in J3 back in high school working on Commercial. Lots of fun. Recently got 5 more hours, but it was on floats. Even more fun.

[rideandfly]

Bill, do you land your airplane on any paved runways such as KIPJ? Does it handle OK on pavement?

Flew into IPJ with the Vag and it's OK on pavement. It has responsive rudder and elevator that need to be respected. I'm getting back to basics mostly on grass for now and enjoy it. Like I said, enjoy flying low & slow in the Vag.

I got 55 hours in J3 back in high school working on Commercial. Lots of fun. Recently got 5 more hours, but it was on floats. Even more fun.

I was Grandfathered in before the tailwheel endorsement requirement in a J3 Cub, too. Most of my time is in tri-geared airplanes. That's why I was happy to buy the Vag, to become more proficient flying tailwheel aircraft. Have many projects I want to do to the Vag. Probably will not teach again, but will keep my CFI certificate up to date.