LSA Training in Dane County WI.

Pilot? Student pilot? Future pilot? Interested in learning to fly? If you're reading this forum, you've got flying in your blood! SportPilotTalk is a great place to ask questions about this exciting new segment of (more) affordable aviation!

Moderator: drseti

Kingkiley
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:04 pm

LSA Training in Dane County WI.

Postby Kingkiley » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:52 pm

Hi all,

Okay, I've been bitten by the flying bug since around 1982 and I've been trying to find a school around here in Dane County WI. The two schools I've checked on (Morey and WI. Aviation) don't offer any LSA training. I did find the school in Hartford. But, that's a 60 mile drive for me one way.

Here's my question. Morey has a J3 Piper Cub(They call it a lease/back) that I can train in. But, since they don't offer any LSA training I can't fly it. What would the possibility be of taking PPL training, with a CFI up until I can get LSA certified? The reason I'd like to fly in the J3 is that it seems to be a pretty available LSA and I can get the tail wheel certification too. I don't want to go for the PPL, just for the LSA certification. Or, is there another place just as close to me to go to?
The other thing, without owning my own LSA, I'd have to drive to Hartford to rent a plane.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

King Kiley(Future Sport pilot...I hope)

cimmaronjim
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:22 pm
Location: Southern AZ

Re: LSA Training in Dane County WI.

Postby cimmaronjim » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:28 am

I guess it's none of their business if you train with them for a while and then quit and finish at another school. I'm sure they have had students that start but don't finish with them, but you need to find out if those hours will count toward sport.

I imagine there are some differences in the syllabus for the 2 certifications.

Would you have to deceive them as to your intentions, or can you ask them about it? "Hey flight school, I want to try some lessons with you, but I might later decide to go sport."

When will they want you to have the 3rd class medical?

Hope you find a way.

3Dreaming
Posts: 2697
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: LSA Training in Dane County WI.

Postby 3Dreaming » Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:18 am

I would see if you can get them to train you in the Cub so solo or near solo. When it get to that point ask again about doing sport pilot, and if the answer is no start making the trip to Hartford.

There is likely one of 2 reasons they don't want to do sport pilot training. 1. They think it is something different than what they are already doing, and it is not with a few exceptions. 2. Their insurance requires a medical for any solo flight. This doesn't preclude doing sport pilot, but most who are doing sport pilot don't want to or can't get a medical.

CTLSi
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:38 pm

Re: LSA Training in Dane County WI.

Postby CTLSi » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:25 am

The SPL is a subset of the PPL. The written for PPL is 60 questions, the SPL is 40 questions.

To train for PPL you need a 3rd class medical cert which is your student license.

If you log time as a PPL student then you are logging time for SPL. Just fewer hours are needed to checkride for SPL. You don't need night training, only 1 hour of under hood versus 3, and the cross countrys are shorter for SPL.

The SPL also needs log book endorsements for entering Class D, C or B. And as SPL you need an endorsement to fly a plane that goes faster than 86CAS.

Once you complete your hours for SPL flying as a PPL student...fly with a CFI that will give you the endorsements you need and the signoff to checkride for SPL. Rent an LSA and get the DPE to checkride you for SPL and you are done.

But why go to all that trouble? If you can qualify for PPL get the PPL and fly whatever you want.

3Dreaming
Posts: 2697
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: LSA Training in Dane County WI.

Postby 3Dreaming » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:08 pm

CTLSi wrote:The SPL is a subset of the PPL. The written for PPL is 60 questions, the SPL is 40 questions.
This is true, but some of the questions will be different.

To train for PPL you need a 3rd class medical cert which is your student license.
You don't need a medical to do training. You do need a medical to act as pilot in command (PIC) as a private pilot student, for sport pilot you use your Drivers' License. You will need a student pilot certificate for either one to act as PIC.

If you log time as a PPL student then you are logging time for SPL. Just fewer hours are needed to checkride for SPL. You don't need night training, only 1 hour of under hood versus 3, and the cross countrys are shorter for SPL.
Private pilot training time does count towards sport pilot. While it does require fewer hours you still have to train to a minimum standard. He is correct about no night training for sport. If you are flying the Cub there is no requirement for instrument training.

The SPL also needs log book endorsements for entering Class D, C or B. And as SPL you need an endorsement to fly a plane that goes faster than 86CAS.
On the endorsements the speed break point is 87Kts, and you need an endorsement for either above or below 87 Kts.

Once you complete your hours for SPL flying as a PPL student...fly with a CFI that will give you the endorsements you need and the signoff to checkride for SPL. Rent an LSA and get the DPE to checkride you for SPL and you are done.
Again it is not just about the hours. You need to be proficient in the areas of operation in the practical test standards before a instructor will provide you with the required endorsements to take the checkride.

But why go to all that trouble? If you can qualify for PPL get the PPL and fly whatever you want.


I just thought I would throw a few corrections in there. If the instructors at the place with the Cub are unsure about sport pilot training send me a PM and I will provide you with my contact information. I would be happy to talk to them about sport pilot training.

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 6455
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: LSA Training in Dane County WI.

Postby drseti » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:14 pm

CTLSi wrote:The SPL is a subset of the PPL. The written for PPL is 60 questions, the SPL is 40 questions.


The numbers are correct, but the "subset" part is not. The PPL knowledge test bank has no questions about SP rules or restrictions; the SP knowledge test bank does. This is why a passing score on the PPL knowledge test will not satisfy the SP knowledge test requirement.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 6455
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: LSA Training in Dane County WI.

Postby drseti » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:21 pm

CTLSi wrote: only 1 hour of under hood versus 3,


The SP hood requirement does not mention any specific number of hours. It merely says the candidate must have completed training in flight solely by reference to instruments, prior to solo XC, if flying an aircraft with a maximum continuous sea-level cruise speed equal to or greater than 87 knots.


as SPL you need an endorsement to fly a plane that goes faster than 86CAS.


As Tom already pointed out, that figure is 87, and it is not arbitrary. 87 knots equals 100 MPH; they just converted from colonial to modern units!

If you can qualify for PPL get the PPL and fly whatever you want.


If "whatever he wants" happens to be an LSA, and the pilot restrictions are not a factor, why on earth should he go for any other rating than SP?
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

Kingkiley
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:04 pm

Re: LSA Training in Dane County WI.

Postby Kingkiley » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:33 pm

Ok, After doing some investigating I've found out that it seems to be a lot less headaches and trouble
to learn at Cubair.

Here's their post,

We offer SPL training year round weather permitting. On average it takes an individual 35 hours and costs roughly $5400.00. That estimate includes almost everything including the instruction hours, exams, and pilot supplies. So figure it being cheaper then that. Your hours in the Cessna 150/172 could count towards your SPL hours, at least some of the hours and you would need to be checked out in a light sport aircraft. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Blue skies,

Jamie Weber
Cub Air Flight LLC
Ph. (262) 725-3591

Now, my next question. Seeing as it would be a hour drive one way. What would be the reasonable
amount of flying time I should expect to put in? In other words, Fly on Saturday and Sunday? Then wait another week to do it again? And what about the ground school part? Do I do it the same way?
This something I could work out with the Instructor, I'm just asking for some ideas about it first.

I also checked out about the Med/Student Cert. from a qualified doctor. Some of them listed have a Inst next to their name. Does this mean Training Instructor? I see it's good for 2 years too. I'd like to see if I could go to one my work insurance covers and have insurance pay for it, if there's a cost involved.

Thanks

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 6455
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: LSA Training in Dane County WI.

Postby drseti » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:55 pm

Kingkiley wrote:What would be the reasonable amount of flying time I should expect to put in? In other words, Fly on Saturday and Sunday? Then wait another week to do it again? And what about the ground school part? Do I do it the same way?


Every flight school has its own curriculum. I can tell you what mine is, based upon four decades of teaching experience: I find the sweet spot to be two lessons a week. Less often than that, and you lose skills between lessons, and spend a lot of time repeating instruction. Much more than that, and you saturate, your learning plateaus, and you burn out. You could do your two lessons on a Saturday and Sunday, but that's not ideal -- better to space them a few days apart, if your work schedule permits, because there will be homework (reading assignments, worksheets, PowerPoint lessons, etc.) between lessons, just as there is between classes in a college course. Why do you think college classes meet M-W-F or Tu-Th, instead of consecutive days?

Some flight schools offer evening ground school classes, separate from the flying lessons. Some give you a bunch of books and assignments, and turn you loose to "teach yourself" on your own time. (Self-study ground school courses are more effective for some than for others.) I'm a big believer in integrated, individual ground instruction, with an hour or so of personal one-on-one associated with (and directly related to) every flying lesson. Your school may not do this, but my standard lesson (twice a week, remember?) is a three hour block: an hour of ground tutorial, an average of 1.3 hours flight time, and about three quarters of an hour of debrief. If you don't debrief after a lesson, you won't know how you did, and what to work on next.

I also checked out about the Med/Student Cert. from a qualified doctor. Some of them listed have a Inst next to their name. Does this mean Training Instructor? I see it's good for 2 years too. I'd like to see if I could go to one my work insurance covers and have insurance pay for it, if there's a cost involved.


The FAA Medical Certificate and Student Pilot Certificate are two separate issues. All students require the latter, whether training for the Private or the Sport Pilot rating. A Student Pilot certificate is good for five years. If you're going for the Private, you'll also need an FAA medical. Depending upon which class you go for (there are three), the medical certificate may be good for six months, a year, two years, or (depending upon your age) as long as five years.

The confusion comes from the fact that Aviation Medical Examiners (the docs authorized by the FAA to give flight physicals and issue certificates) can provide both the medical and the student certificate on a single form. And, of course, they charge for the physical exam (no, insurance normally doesn't cover it, because it's not medically necessary). But, unless you actually need the medical (are training for a rating that requires it -- the Sport Pilot rating doesn't), you just need a Student Pilot certificate. The docs won't issue one separate from the medical certificate; you have to go elsewhere for a stand-alone student pilot certificate. They can be issued (for free) by any FAA District Office, or for a fee by any Designated Pilot Examiner. Even if you pay a DPE, it's way cheaper than paying an MD for a physical exam.

Remember that the Sport Pilot rating does not require an FAA flight physical. It requires that you be healthy enough to fly, hold a valid state-issued driver's license, and abide by any medical restrictions it imposes on your driving. You could also use an FAA medical certificate as a Sport Pilot, but there's risk involved. If you take an FAA medical exam and fail it for whatever reason, you not only lose your chance to become a Private Pilot, but you also lose your Sport Pilot privileges. So, think very carefully about whether you really need an FAA medical before you put yourself at risk.

Hope this helps to clarify things for you.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 6455
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: LSA Training in Dane County WI.

Postby drseti » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:59 pm

PS -- if your flight school says the SP rating will cost you $5400, budget $6400. You might not need that extra thousand, but there's nothing as frustrating as being almost ready for the checkride, needing just a little more instruction, and running out of money! My basic Sport Pilot course runs $5000 plus tax. I tell my prospective students to sign up when they have $6000 cash on hand, just to give themselves a bit of a buffer.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US


Return to “Introduce Yourself!”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 39 guests