Old School or Modern School

Sport aviation is growing rapidly. But the new sport pilot / light-sport aircraft rules are still a mystery to many flight schools and instructors. To locate a flight school offering sport pilot training and/or light-sport aircraft rentals, click on the "Flight School And Rental Finder" tab above. This is a great place to share ideas on learning to fly, flight schools, costs and anything else related to training.

Moderator: drseti

RTC'83
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:05 pm

Old School or Modern School

Postby RTC'83 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:39 pm

Finally it looks like I found a SP training center, and will be there next Monday to visit and hopefully enroll. I have not spoken to the CFI, but been told that the ground school program is open to student choice. I am leaning towards Gleim, but input from the CFI will determine my choice.

I have been reviewing several online programs and most kits come with and E6B flight computer. Some are the traditional 'slide ruler type" others have the "computer, calculator" version.

I remember when the snakes used to walk upright, so no computer in school and used a slide ruler, not shying away from the old school but the modern stuff would be "easier"

Any thought on the E6B choice?

3Dreaming
Posts: 2745
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Old School or Modern School

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:26 pm

Old school is fine, a manual E6B and a map have never failed me yet. The only time might be if flying open cockpit. You might lose a map, but I suppose you could lose an iPad in turbulance too. Now days though, if you are using an iPad with Foreflight you can probably forego the computer and let Foreflight do it for you. At least that seems to be the trend. You just need to know and understand the information, and where it comes from.

User avatar
Scooper
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:29 pm
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: Old School or Modern School

Postby Scooper » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:52 pm

I prefer the old school (eighty years old this year) original Dalton E6B. There are no batteries to run down, no integrated circuits or LCD displays to fail, and they work reliably at huge high and low temperature extremes.

Read and understand the E6B instruction manual, and you'll find its operation stone simple.
Stan Cooper (K4DRD)
Private Pilot ASEL LSRI
Image
Experimental AMD CH601XLi-B Zodiac LSA N601KE (KSTS)

User avatar
FastEddieB
Posts: 2779
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: Old School or Modern School

Postby FastEddieB » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:14 pm

Scooper wrote:I prefer the old school (eighty years old this year) original Dalton E6B. There are no batteries to run down, no integrated circuits or LCD displays to fail, and they work reliably at huge high and low temperature extremes.

Read and understand the E6B instruction manual, and you'll find its operation stone simple.


To add some new school to that old school advice, I'm pretty sure one can find decent YouTube videos on E6B fundamentals.

I never learned how to use a slide rule, but found the E6B pretty straightforward to use and to teach. And, dare I say, elegant. Alas, I haven't used mine in what I think is decades. Probably should dig it out for old time's sake!
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
FastEddieB@mac.com

rcpilot
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:32 pm
Location: Mastic, NY

Re: Old School or Modern School

Postby rcpilot » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:15 pm

Well, I guess I'm just an older guy that likes fancy gadgets. I remember buying my first scientific calculator before I went to college. Back in the day it was $100. My instructor did show me how to use an E6B but before my written I went out and bought the electronic version from Sporty's. I work with computers for a living so I'm comfortable with technology.

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 6591
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Old School or Modern School

Postby drseti » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:53 pm

rcpilot wrote:I remember buying my first scientific calculator before I went to college. Back in the day it was $100.


That would make you a youngster. The very first scientific calculator was the HP-35, designed by one of my engineering mentors, Dr. Bernard M. Oliver, circa 1972. That was the year before I started teaching, so I sprung the $395, and never regretted the purchase. (According to Wikipedia, that price is equivalent to $2414 today!)
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

chicagorandy
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: Old School or Modern School

Postby chicagorandy » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:01 pm

I'm 71 and well remember my High School days and the noble slide rule - nowadays most 'yoots' would assume "hairline cursor" refers to a foul-mouthed barber.

As technology steadily advances it DOES become the standard form of operation. Yes I also now use a digital caliper cuz it's way easier on the old eyeballs, haven't looked at an Encyclopedia Britannica since Google and while I still enjoy paper maps, I travel via GPS more and more. Aviation is no different, and thank the gods for that I reckon.
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln

User avatar
Scooper
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:29 pm
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: Old School or Modern School

Postby Scooper » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:44 pm

I still have my HP 35 from the mid-70s, Paul. It took me a few minutes to figure out reverse polish notation, but then I fell in love with it. I've used an HP 11c for years because the 35 with its LED display doesn't last long on a charge.
Stan Cooper (K4DRD)
Private Pilot ASEL LSRI
Image
Experimental AMD CH601XLi-B Zodiac LSA N601KE (KSTS)

User avatar
ShawnM
Posts: 584
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:59 pm
Location: Clearwater, FL / KZPH

Re: Old School or Modern School

Postby ShawnM » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:11 pm

RTC'83 wrote:Finally it looks like I found a SP training center, and will be there next Monday to visit and hopefully enroll. I have not spoken to the CFI, but been told that the ground school program is open to student choice. I am leaning towards Gleim, but input from the CFI will determine my choice.

I have been reviewing several online programs and most kits come with and E6B flight computer. Some are the traditional 'slide ruler type" others have the "computer, calculator" version.

I remember when the snakes used to walk upright, so no computer in school and used a slide ruler, not shying away from the old school but the modern stuff would be "easier"

Any thought on the E6B choice?


I bought and used Gleim books, when I started my test prep I lived in Gainesville where Gleim is located. I drove over and picked up my books. Their books and online test prep is great. I didn't buy the "kit" as I didn't need all the stuff it came with. I used my iPad for calculations and an excel spreadsheet that I created for my plane for weight and balance. I used these both for my test prep and when I took my oral. Never owned an E6-B during my LSA training and was never asked to use one. This was 6 years ago. Most of the EFB's these days come with all the necessary stuff to calculate these things for you. Just make sure you understand what you're trying to calculate.

User avatar
WDD
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Old School or Modern School

Postby WDD » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:28 pm

I used Gleim. I liked their on line testing, but the book is somewhat out of date, a bit hard to follow in places, etc.

One is a chapter dedicated on how to use the manual wheel slide rule E6B. I have never had a need and will never have a need to use that the rest of my life.

I did get the Sporty's E6B for the written test, and have found it useful a few times. But honestly you can get any number of E6B apps for your phone. Between my phone, my Sporty's E6B, and ForeFlight on the I Pad I can safely say I'm covered.

My 2CW is to investigate King's or Sporty's system in addition to Gleim. And to skip the manual E6B.

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 6591
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Old School or Modern School

Postby drseti » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:33 pm

WDD wrote:I did get the Sporty's E6B for the written test, and have found it useful a few times. But honestly you can get any number of E6B apps for your phone.


Which, of course, you can't use in the knowledge testing center. That's why the Sportys calculator is selling so well.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

User avatar
WDD
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Old School or Modern School

Postby WDD » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:06 am

As always, you are correct. :idea: Which is why I bought the Sporty's. I do find myself pulling it out and using it post taking the written test, so the $80 investment will be used from time to time. For me, the speed, accuracy, and peace of mind not having to deal with pencil dots and spinning and sliding the wheel device during the test was worth it. (BTW - how did Sporty's get their calculator to be the one and only approved?)

Old school vs Modern school - it's all relative.

300 Years Ago: I can imagine the old sailors giving grief to the new guys using this "magic" device called a compass. A needle pointing north? Hah. What if you drop if over board? Just look at the sun, where the birds are flying, and the clouds.

50 Years Ago: VOR? Hah - you youngings. The tower will go out, your battery will die, the instrument will stop working. Just look outside and follow the railroad tracks and your compass.

Today: Hah, you'll drop it, batteries will die, GPS satellites will fall from the sky, military will one day jam everything. Just use VOR

To be fair, my opinion is there is a lot of good intentions. I know what works, I truly don't want to see new people get into trouble, so just do what I do and it will work. If you've been flying 30 years without an I pad (they've only been out 10 years after all),a Sporty's calculator, GPS, etc. just doesn't seem intuitive. If you're a brand new student with fresh eyes, I pads, GPS, etc is probably the only thing that makes sense.

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 6591
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Old School or Modern School

Postby drseti » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:00 am

(BTW - how did Sporty's get their calculator to be the one and only approved?)


Actually, ASA also has an approved one. The limitation is that FARs prohibit use on the knowledge test of anything with memory or communications capability. That's why cellphone and tablet apps are out.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 6591
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Old School or Modern School

Postby drseti » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:17 am

My first college teaching job started in January 1973. The engineering department curriculum required sliderule use in all classes. I had this newfangled HP-35 elecronic scientific calculator, and wanted to introduce my students to it. Met with staunch resistance from my department chair and colleagues. Part of the issue was "our students can't afford one of those!"

Within a decade, Casio and TI had brought out cheap scientific calculators, and they soon became required equipment even in high schools. So, the issue is partially economic.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US


Return to “Training”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests