ICAO flight plan format

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TimTaylor
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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:20 am

Flight following is just another set of eyes helping you avoid other aircraft. It's still up to the PIC to "see and avoid." You can request clearance through class B or C airspace and you may or may not get it. I've never heard of or tried getting cleared through class D airspace.

Flight following is available on a work load basis. What I like about it is having someone a "button click" away in an emergency. If I lose an engine, I would rather tell them I'm going down than to rely on a VFR flight plan. Of course, you can do both if you want.
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Wm.Ince
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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby Wm.Ince » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:18 pm

TimTaylor wrote:You can request clearance through class B or C airspace and you may or may not get it. I've never heard of or tried getting cleared through class D airspace.

Just for the record, "clearance" is not required to enter Class C and D airspace.

ATC clearance is required for Class B, but for Class C and D airspace, only two-way radio communication is required prior to entry.
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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby drseti » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:40 pm

JJay wrote: as those are portable devices I assume I can't actually report having ADS-B "in" capability - is that correct?


An excellent question, JJ, to which I'm afraid I don't have the answer. I know a GPS receiver doesn't get listed unless it's permanently installed, but I can't find any FAR specifying whether the same applies to datalink receivers. Can anyone here give me a reference?
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ShawnM
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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby ShawnM » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:14 am

This is posted on the FAA's ADS-B FAQ page, does this help?

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/resources/faq/#q40

Will the FAA allow portable/handheld units, or will they have to be panel mounts only?
Installed transponders and GPS units must meet certification standards. Handheld devices and displays that serve only for situational awareness have more flexibility and are not certified installations. In order to comply with 14 CFR § 91.225 and 91.227 aircraft intended to fly in ADS-B airspace must have installed and certified equipment. Portable installations are not compliant to the rule and would only be usable for receiving FIS-B services for situational awareness. The FAA is in the early stages of investigating a portable device for glider aircraft.

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JJay
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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby JJay » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:39 am

Not sure that actually answers the question. Those FAQ's refer mainly to the 2020 mandate for ADS-B Out. I don't know that it specifies that a flight plan should list ADSB-In equipage if such equipage is not permanently mounted in the aircraft.
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ShawnM
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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby ShawnM » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:49 am

JJay wrote:Not sure that actually answers the question. Those FAQ's refer mainly to the 2020 mandate for ADS-B Out. I don't know that it specifies that a flight plan should list ADSB-In equipage if such equipage is not permanently mounted in the aircraft.


Correct, I just posted this because to fly in ADS-B rule airspace you need installed, certified equipment, not portable equipment. I'm going out on a limb here and thinking that the FAA would want some uniformity between rules using the same equipment. They (FAA) just dont put a lot of faith in portable equipment for one reason or another. Since they say it's only good for "situational awareness" and if on a flight plan something oges wrong they want to be able to find you quicker.

You ask a great question though about portable vs panel mount because I have both. My GDL-82 is a certified OUT unit but my GDL-39 is a portable IN unit but it's hardwired into my avionics.

It's just not complicated enough yet. :mrgreen:

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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby drseti » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:56 am

ShawnM wrote:It's just not complicated enough yet. :mrgreen:


You're right! We're not happy if you're not... confused.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Warmi
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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby Warmi » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:57 am

Well , I have GDL 39R which is obviously mounted permanently but the display is either Area 796 ( mounted in a permanent cradle but the device is removable ) or an IPad.
So is that a permanent or portable setup ? :-)
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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby Wm.Ince » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:37 am

ICAO job security . . . alive and well.
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ShawnM
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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby ShawnM » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:29 am

Warmi wrote:Well , I have GDL 39R which is obviously mounted permanently but the display is either Area 796 ( mounted in a permanent cradle but the device is removable ) or an IPad.
So is that a permanent or portable setup ? :-)


The way I look at it, which means absolutely nothing by the way, is that your 796 is part of the "equipment list" for your plane and even because it's mounted in a dock it's permanent and came with the plane. The GDL-39 is portable device, like mine even though hardwired and mounted, and not part of the "equipment list" in your POH.

That was my guess, clear as mud? :mrgreen:

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Warmi
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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby Warmi » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:43 am

Well GDL 39R is mouthed permanently since it is the “remote” version ... similar to GDL 82 , I would think but like you said ... who knows ..
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drseti
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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby drseti » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:44 am

If it's a part of the plane, and its functional, and you use it, I'd list it on my flight plan. What are they going to do if it's wrong, shoot you down?
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
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dstclair
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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby dstclair » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:28 am

Paul -- you beat me to it!

Basically, a VFR flight plan is mostly informational -- provides a paper trail that you had a plan and probably followed the other planning regs and is used for SAR. You are not going to get different services based on the equipage you list. An IFR flight plan is a bit different since your navigational equipment will dictate what type of routing and approach you can accept. In this case, I'm unaware of any extra services you will be provided because you have ADS-B In (certified or not).
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TimTaylor
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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby TimTaylor » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:29 am

Makes sense to me. If ADS-B in was required equipment, that would be a different story.
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ShawnM
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Re: ICAO flight plan format

Postby ShawnM » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:47 pm

I agree, I don’t see how it would change things on a VFR flight plan. I don’t file flight plans anyway but instead use flight following on the longer flights. I’m with Tim and like knowing someone is at the other end of my push to talk button if the need arises.


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