What should I do?

N918KT · Post by **N918KT** » Sat May 07, 2011 9:03 am

You know what ticks me off? CFIs not being knowledgable about sport pilot.

I remember that one night I went with the Morristown Aviation Explorers to a flight school at Morristown Airport. When I asked if they had sport pilot, they said no, because it is too restrictive, and "you can't fly more than 50 miles from your home airport".

That 50 miles is for recreational pilots only!!! Man, I hate it when CFIs have the wrong information about sport pilot. The flight school at Morristown Airport are so not knowledgable about sport pilot!

Aerco · Post by **Aerco** » Sat May 07, 2011 9:25 pm

Tell me about it - it's infuriating. Many "regular" CFIs seem to go out of their way to actively discourage the whole Sport Pilot concept. Mostly out of sheer ignorance and perhaps they think it's better to get about 8,000 bucks out of a customer than 4,000. Stupid logic: they might get 5 times as many Sport Pilot applicants as Private and make more money.

Just out of principle I am getting my CFI - I was planning on Sport Pilot CFI but have since reconsidered and I'm going the whole way - instrument, commercial and regular CFI. I really hope to make a difference in people's attitudes and will welcome Sport Pilots, in fact I am still going to focus on that primarily.

drseti · Post by **drseti** » Sat May 07, 2011 9:35 pm

Aerco wrote:Just out of principle I am getting my CFI - I was planning on Sport Pilot CFI but have since reconsidered and I'm going the whole way - instrument, commercial and regular CFI.

Good for you, Aerco! That's exactly what the industry needs - more qualified CFIs who will embrace the SP and LSA concept. Get those ratings, and then call me if you ever want to teach in rural Central PA.

RyanShort1 · Post by **RyanShort1** » Sat May 07, 2011 10:20 pm

drseti wrote:
Aerco wrote:Just out of principle I am getting my CFI - I was planning on Sport Pilot CFI but have since reconsidered and I'm going the whole way - instrument, commercial and regular CFI.
Good for you, Aerco! That's exactly what the industry needs - more qualified CFIs who will embrace the SP and LSA concept.

I agree... The good thing is that some of those may advance further later on, and just having more people involved is the best way to help the GA image.

Ryan

Aerco · Post by **Aerco** » Sun May 08, 2011 1:06 am

drseti wrote:
Good for you, Aerco! That's exactly what the industry needs - more qualified CFIs who will embrace the SP and LSA concept. Get those ratings, and then call me if you ever want to teach in rural Central PA.

I'll quote you on that one day....

The only reason I changed my my mind about being purely a Sport Pilot CFI is really to try to change what I can from within, so to speak. At this time, most (most, not all) CFIs will never take us seriously. Perhaps seeing others of their peers getting involved might gradually change their outlook.

Plus the fact that making any kind of income purely on Sport Pilot training is will always be something of a limiting factor; one simply has to diversify to even keep one's head above water in this business. Add to that the FAA's screw-up about not being able to count SP-CFI hours towards other ratings made me take the plunge.

Starting my instrument training tomorrow: written is done, so is AGI and FOI. A long and expensive way to go yet...

zdc · Post by **zdc** » Sun May 08, 2011 9:28 am

What ever happened to the proposed rule change to drop the 10 hour training in a complex acft for a commercial rating? That change would save you a bundle of money.

drseti · Post by **drseti** » Sun May 08, 2011 9:30 am

Aerco wrote:Starting my instrument training tomorrow: written is done, so is AGI and FOI. A long and expensive way to go yet...

So, the clock is running! Remember, you have two years until those writtens expire. Stick to it, and I'm sure you'll do great.

One word of advice from your friendly neighborhood CFII: the moment you finish your instrument rating, get started on commercial maneuvers. My reason: instrument training is heads-down flying, and you'll forget how to scan outside. Commercial training is all visual reference, so it will get your head back on a swivel, and teach you how to see and avoid other traffic, all over again.

Good luck, and have fun. (Can't help you with the cost part...)

drseti · Post by **drseti** » Sun May 08, 2011 9:48 am

zdc wrote:What ever happened to the proposed rule change to drop the 10 hour training in a complex acft for a commercial rating?

Last I heard, it had been recommended by NAFI, EAA, etc., but not yet gotten to the NPRM stage. Until it does, and the public comment period is opened and closed, not much is going to happen. The gears of government grind slowly...

zdc · Post by **zdc** » Sun May 08, 2011 10:02 am

drseti wrote:
zdc wrote:What ever happened to the proposed rule change to drop the 10 hour training in a complex acft for a commercial rating?
Last I heard, it had been recommended by NAFI, EAA, etc., but not yet gotten to the NPRM stage. Until it does, and the public comment period is opened and closed, not much is going to happen. The gears of government grind slowly...

The public comment period ended Nov 2009. Normally you would see the new rule implemented about a year later, which is why I was wondering what happened. There was also a proposal at the same time as this one to make it possible to receive a private and instrument rating concurrently, another possible money saver.

drseti · Post by **drseti** » Sun May 08, 2011 10:22 am

zdc wrote:The public comment period ended Nov 2009.

Boy, am I out of date! Well, I haven't seen anything lately, so I wonder if the bureaucrats buried this proposal.

Jack Tyler · Post by **Jack Tyler** » Sun May 08, 2011 11:56 am

cerwindel:

Back to your original query: I think there's just a big gap between what I would want you to hear from this prospective CFI and what you reported hearing. That gap goes well beyond the guy's familiarity with the LSA a/c the school has available and the SP license, altho' that's surely enough right there to halt me in my tracks.

There are two realities here: The first is that it's always uncomfortable for the student pilot to presume to ask a CFI probing questions. What is his teaching philosophy, how many SP's he's trained in the last 6 months, what's the school's and his own SP completion rate, and so forth.

But second, it's both appropriate and essential. And not just because you need to be a wise consumer and will be spending significant monies. Even more important than those practical considerations is that this is the guy or gal who will most fundamentally introduce you to aviation. Who will build your values set, and help you construct an operational philosophy that is literally the foundation to all your subsequent flying.

Of course, many students don't have this kind of experience with an instructor. They end up with a 'trainer', someone who knows how to march the student through the syllabus but doesn't appreciate the higher calling of the CFI role. I'm hoping your locale offers you enough choices that you can find the person who can do it all for you, not just train you in how to stick Tab A into Slot B.

Think of it this way: You want to hire a trained professional to do a specific job. You are the employer. Very naturally, you'll want to interview at least a few candidates for the job. Perhaps a good first step is to strengthen your set of interview Q's, perhaps by looking at a few overview articles on selecting a flight instructor (e.g. see http://www.aopa.org/letsgoflying/ready/ ... =T10930AWL ) and then customizing the Q list to fit your needs.

Good luck on the shopping...

scottj · Post by **scottj** » Sun May 08, 2011 8:00 pm

As I understand the question, the "customer" wants to get his Sport Pilot license, not a Private Pilot license. He also wants to train in a Light Sport Aircraft, not a larger C-172.

Right there he needs to stop, do some more research and find a flight school that teaches in LSA and understands the unique handling characteristics of a light sport aircraft. The instructor is obviously out of his element when he tells the student that all airplanes fly the same. The instructor needs an attitude and reality check.

If he is thinking of buying an airplane, I suggest test flying several LSA brands, and then doing his training in whatever he will be purchasing. There is a big difference in LSA aircraft and how they fly.

Regulation or not, no instructor should attempt to give instruction in an aircraft that he has less than 5 (or 10...) hours of dual received himself.

zdc · Post by **zdc** » Sun May 08, 2011 9:12 pm

Five to ten hours dual for a CFI to instruct in particular aircraft is a laudable goal. BTW, who pays for that?

drseti · Post by **drseti** » Sun May 08, 2011 9:43 pm

zdc wrote:Five to ten hours dual for a CFI to instruct in particular aircraft is a laudable goal. BTW, who pays for that?

I think I mentioned before (but maybe on a different thread) how I work that at my flight school. Unless they have significant prior LSA experience, I require my adjunct instructors to take my Pilot Downsizer course. This course includes 5 hours of dual flight instruction, four hours of individualized ground instruction, a CD full of training materials, and a comprehensive final exam. It counts as their flight review and company checkride. I provide my instructional time for free; prospective instructors pay only the Hobbs time for the plane. Yes, it ends up costing my CFIs $500 out of pocket. If they're serious about doing LSA instructing, they can earn back that investment in just a few days, by giving about six lessons.

BTW, I bought myself the same training from a qualified fellow CFI, when I made the transition to instructing in LSA. First principle of management: never ask of your employees anything you're not willing to do yourself!

zdc · Post by **zdc** » Sun May 08, 2011 10:20 pm

.

If your instructors can recoup $500 in 6 lessons, can I assume the instructors are not your employees but independent contractors of sort?

Sport Pilot Talk

What should I do?

CFI does not know Sport