E-AB Question

Are you building/buying/flying an Experimental Amateur-Built (E-AB) or Experimental Light Sport (E-LSA) aircraft? Converting an S-LSA to E-LSA? Changing or adding equipment, or otherwise modifying an S-LSA? Need help with Letters of Authorization? Or maybe designing your own aircraft? This forum is the place to discuss All Things Experimental.

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FastEddieB
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by FastEddieB »

I would choose an appropriate road without hesitation, but would try to keep other options in mind.

In survival mode one thing tends to take priority: survival. A potential violation would not even cross my mind.
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TimTaylor
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by TimTaylor »

FastEddieB wrote:I would choose an appropriate road without hesitation, but would try to keep other options in mind.

In survival mode one thing tends to take priority: survival. A potential violation would not even cross my mind.
For sure.
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3Dreaming
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by 3Dreaming »

FastEddieB wrote:I would choose an appropriate road without hesitation, but would try to keep other options in mind.

In survival mode one thing tends to take priority: survival. A potential violation would not even cross my mind.
How do you determine if a road is appropriate? I know from past experience, and it was reiterated to me again recently when doing glider training that emergency landings on roads are a bad idea. A road should be your last choice for an emergency landing. Roads have wires, and wires kill people in airplanes.

I made an emergency landing on a road once. The engine swallowed a valve. It was running, but not very good. It was right around the Fourth of July, and had been a good year for the farmers. Both the corn and beans were pretty tall by then. I circled and landed on a road that I had driven down many times. I rolled up and pulled off in a gravel parking lot across from a church. There was not damage from the landing. When help arrived one of the fellows was an old time ag pilot. He looked down the road and ask, "Did you go above or below the wires?". I looked down the road and said, "I went under the wires, because I was on the ground by there. The thought of wires hadn't even crossed my mind in making my decision. It has since then, and I make it a point to talk with students about what is suitable areas for emergency landings. I would take 7 foot corn over 2 foot beans I do this because it is not what most people think, and what is right for survival may not be best for the airplane.
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MrMorden
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by MrMorden »

You would expect to get violated for a mechanical failure?
Andy Walker
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TimTaylor
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by TimTaylor »

MrMorden wrote:You would expect to get violated for a mechanical failure?
Yes, if I land on a highway, I expect a violation. I may not get one, but if I do, I won't be surprised, especially if I cause harm or damage to someone else or property.
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Wm.Ince
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by Wm.Ince »

TimTaylor wrote:
MrMorden wrote:You would expect to get violated for a mechanical failure?
Yes, if I land on a highway, I expect a violation. I may not get one, but if I do, I won't be surprised, especially if I cause harm or damage to someone else or property.
During an emergency, if you are exercising your emergency authority, as a pilot in command, what would the violation be for?
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FastEddieB
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by FastEddieB »

In my neck of the woods - emphasis on woods - sometimes a short stretch of road is the only alternative to putting it down in the trees. Outside of populated areas, roads are most often lightly traveled. With proper configuration and airspeed control, all you might need is about 500’ of clear road.

But due to the possibility of power lines and/or traffic, I would always like to choose a road with at least some clear area to the side as an option.
Fast Eddie B.
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TimTaylor
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by TimTaylor »

I think we would probably all choose an open field, then a clear area of road, finally the trees. I'm a good swimmer, so landing in water would always be an option except in winter. Hopefully, most of us will never have to make this decision.
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Wm.Ince
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by Wm.Ince »

FastEddieB wrote:In my neck of the woods - emphasis on woods - sometimes a short stretch of road is the only alternative to putting it down in the trees. Outside of populated areas, roads are most often lightly traveled. With proper configuration and airspeed control, all you might need is about 500’ of clear road.

But due to the possibility of power lines and/or traffic, I would always like to choose a road with at least some clear area to the side as an option.
Concur.
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3Dreaming
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by 3Dreaming »

FastEddieB wrote:In my neck of the woods - emphasis on woods - sometimes a short stretch of road is the only alternative to putting it down in the trees. Outside of populated areas, roads are most often lightly traveled. With proper configuration and airspeed control, all you might need is about 500’ of clear road.

But due to the possibility of power lines and/or traffic, I would always like to choose a road with at least some clear area to the side as an option.
The problem with power lines or any kind of overhead wires is you can not see them easily from the air, until it is too late. As in my case there was plenty of clearance on the sides, but the wires crossed the road. I am not saying avoid roads at all cost. What I am saying is not to make a road your first choice, because it looks like a runway. It can have hidden dangers. If an emergency landing does come calling, look at all your options and choose wisely. You can improve the possible outcome by putting some forethought into your choices.
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MrMorden
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by MrMorden »

If my only reasonable chance for survival is to land in a road, and the FAA violated me for that decision, I'd call that a gross miscarriage of justice. I'm not sacrificing my life to spare myself a violation, and the FAA should never expect that to be a consideration in any pilot's thought process. If survival is in conflict with rules, the rules are immoral.
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Wm.Ince
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by Wm.Ince »

MrMorden wrote:. . . the FAA should never expect that to be a consideration in any pilot's thought process.
No worry . . . because they don't expect that.
MrMorden wrote:If survival is in conflict with rules, the rules are immoral.
. . . and illogical.
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ShawnM
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by ShawnM »

MrMorden wrote:If my only reasonable chance for survival is to land in a road, and the FAA violated me for that decision, I'd call that a gross miscarriage of justice. I'm not sacrificing my life to spare myself a violation, and the FAA should never expect that to be a consideration in any pilot's thought process. If survival is in conflict with rules, the rules are immoral.
I couldn't agree more !!!

Why on earth would "will I get a violation for this" even be part of your thought process in an emergency situation? Who thinks like this? Give me 5 violations for landing on a road, I could care less, I was focused on saving my own life not the FAA rules and regs. :mrgreen:
TimTaylor
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by TimTaylor »

I don't think any intelligent pilot is going to worry about a violation of FAR's in any emergency. However, when the emergency has been successfully dealt with, there may be consequences for the pilot depending on what damages he has caused to people or property on the ground. That is only reasonable. No reasonable thinking person would think a pilot certificate somehow allows you to damage others with immunity, regardless of the cause.
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ShawnM
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Re: E-AB Question

Post by ShawnM »

TimTaylor wrote:I don't think any intelligent pilot is going to worry about a violation of FAR's in any emergency. However, when the emergency has been successfully dealt with, there may be consequences for the pilot depending on what damages he has caused to people or property on the ground. That is only reasonable. No reasonable thinking person would think a pilot certificate somehow allows you to damage others with immunity, regardless of the cause.
I agree with you and I dont think anyone said anything about immunity. With some good piloting skills I'll walk away from that landing on the highway and gladly take my licks from the FAA or anyone else if they come. But then and only then will I be worried about it.
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