Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

Postby drseti » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:29 pm

Warmi wrote:
Well the upside for you is that it is likely Tecnam will still be around long after Bristell is gone ... :-)


I know that Tecnam likes to boast how long they've been around (since 1946, I think?) But that's really misleading. They started out as Partenavia, and are by now really a totally different company.
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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

Postby Warmi » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:52 pm

Wm.Ince wrote:
Warmi wrote:. . . it is likely Tecnam will still be around long after Bristell is gone ... :-)

What is the basis for that assertion?
What makes you think Bristell is going anywhere but up?


I don’t really have any information suggesting that Bristell is going anywhere ... just more of a principle that a larger company with multiple product lines is more likely to survive during a downturn than a mom and pop shop that relies on a single specialized product line.
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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

Postby ryoder » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:29 pm

My guess is that these LSAs will be recertified at higher gross weights when the rule comes out. It will include new placards, programming, and POH.
Maybe wishful thinking.

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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

Postby Scooper » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:57 pm

Warmi wrote:Think he meant that they are designing a plane at 600 kg gross that will become immediately obsolete when new rules come into play -

Considering the definition of 'obsolete' (no longer in use or no longer useful), I think the use of that term in the context of the current crop of LSAs is a bit harsh. LSAs built to the current ASTM standards will continue to be used and enjoyed long after new rules are codified (if and when that happens).
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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

Postby designrs » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:25 pm

Warmi wrote:I don’t really have any information suggesting that Bristell is going anywhere ... just more of a principle that a larger company with multiple product lines is more likely to survive during a downturn than a mom and pop shop that relies on a single specialized product line.


The major portion of Bristell’s market is Europe. I believe that they have produced +/-175 planes a year, and that number is increasing. Tecnam probably has huge European sales numbers. It is doubtful that European standards are changing.

Then again big corporate can just pull out of a small product line. Just look at PiperSport... and the Cirrus LSA that never happened. Lots of politics in corporate for sure.

Most LSAs are produced mom & pop, or expanded mom & pop. Look at Van’s Aircraft! I’m sure they’ll stay around.

Company commitment and integrity is key.
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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

Postby ash31Mi » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:51 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
ash31Mi wrote:I own a Tecnam Astore which is a superb aircraft, but if buying again I'd seriously consider Bristell; looks like they have a better focus on the small plane end of the market, whereas Tecnam appears to be ignoring small planes in favor of their larger models.


And a pretty nice powered sailplane if you forum handle is any indication.


Good guess - although I've now sold the Schleicher ASH 31 Mi and have something even more intriguing arriving soon: a GP Gliders Jeta (https://www.gpgliders.com/offer/gp-15-e-se-jeta) - Polish-built 15 meter electric self-launch single seater racing sailplane. Electric is very feasible for sailplanes because it's only needed for launch and/or in-air retrieve. Custom batteries in each wing provide enough power for about 10,000 ft of height gain.

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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8!

Postby designrs » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:57 pm

Cool!
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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

Postby drseti » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:59 pm

The Jeta is a superb sailplane, but at 167 knot Vne, it's not an LSA. :(
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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

Postby ash31Mi » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:07 am

...and getting back to the Bristell vs. Tecnam topic: Bristell's core business is small aircraft and they seem to be pouring resources into expanding the business with some good quality products. Tecnam produces spectacular aircraft, but they appear to be ignoring the LSA end of their product range in favor of the other stuff. The cost of a new fully loaded Astore with a Rotax 914 is around $245,000, which puts it well beyond Bristell, not to mention other LSAs.

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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

Postby Warmi » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:52 am

designrs wrote:
ShawnM wrote:the newest SportCruiser as they are already at max BEW. The newest planes are VERY, VERY heavy. This is why even today the only engine you can get in a SportCruiser is the tried and true 912ULS. :mrgreen:


My 2011 SportCruiser with the 912 ULS and BRS was 870 pounds!

If you look at Bristell, the rivets are very close together. This is because they use thin aluminum where they can.
....


Why bother with aluminum in the first place if your main design goal is a light weight craft ?

Just look at modern gliders - pretty much all of them are now composite constructions ...
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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

Postby Warmi » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:59 am

Scooper wrote:
Warmi wrote:Think he meant that they are designing a plane at 600 kg gross that will become immediately obsolete when new rules come into play -

Considering the definition of 'obsolete' (no longer in use or no longer useful), I think the use of that term in the context of the current crop of LSAs is a bit harsh. LSAs built to the current ASTM standards will continue to be used and enjoyed long after new rules are codified (if and when that happens).



Yep, I used the wrong term - what I meant was “ no longer commercially competitive” ...
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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

Postby FastEddieB » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:04 am

drseti wrote:I know that Tecnam likes to boast how long they've been around (since 1946, I think?) But that's really misleading. They started out as Partenavia, and are by now really a totally different company.


I’m sure I mentioned this, but in 2006/2007 when I began Light Sport shopping, I was impressed with this decal on the tail of the Sky Arrow:

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1947! Two years before I was born! As I’m often told, “That was a long time ago, mister!”. And, in context, a lot of the offerings back then were fairly young companies or startups with little or no track records. I’m sure Brazil and Latvia and Estonia and Grand Fenwick are/were capable of producing a quality product, but I was a bit dubious about the longevity of some of the offerings I saw at Oshkosh back then.

That said, just a few years after I bought my plane the company, 3i, was close to, or in some form of bankruptcy or reorganization in Italy. So, proof that the saying about past performance blah, blah, blah...has some validity, and there are no guarantees. The good news is that 3i was bought out by a large Italian conglomerate, Magnaghi. And further good news is the very few time - maybe 5 or 6 times - I’ve needed Sky Arrow-specific parts from either entity, they were available and shipped pretty quickly.

As an aside, I still lust after that red Bristell tailwheel I saw at Sebring. Be still, my heart...

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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

Postby drseti » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:32 am

FastEddieB wrote:As an aside, I still lust after that red Bristell tailwheel I saw at Sebring. Be still, my heart...


Et tu, Brute? When that plane went on the market, somebody else beat me to putting down a deposit, else I would have grabbed it. Then, the buyer hired me to do the prebuy. I told him I might have a conflict of interest, and he said "no problem - I know you are friends with the seller. That's OK. I trust you to be objective."

"No, that's not it," I replied. "When I do the prebuy, I'm going to try extra hard to find fault with the plane, so you'll walk away from it, and I can buy it for myself."

Sadly, I couldn't find any dealbreakers. :(
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

Postby designrs » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:19 pm

That red taildragger was HAWT!!
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Re: Bristell - BRM Aero - HIGH WING B8

Postby designrs » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:58 pm

It would be good to see the owner of that red Bristell TDO on this forum. I would have a whole thread dedicated to adventures in that plane!
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