Deal or not?

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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N601XP
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Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:49 pm

Deal or not?

Postby N601XP » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:25 pm

I saw a Flight Design CTSW, 2005 with only 323 total time on Barnstormers for the ridiculous price of $32,000, no damage, decent avionics and always hangared.
Too good to be true,right?

So I called the broker handling the sale and here is the situation:
The aircraft is SLSA and the engine has a time limitation that is expired, so it needs to have an overhaul or engine replacement to get in annual.
So great, just change over to ELSA and just keep flying it.
Problem is, to put it into ELSA it must be a current annual. It’s out of annual.
So there it is, a great deal until you figure what it’s going to take to get it flying.
I guess if you have access to a replacement motor, get an annual, do the ELSA changeover and put the original engine back in when it’s converted.
Just thought I’d throw this out there for discussion as I have never seen a situation like this before.
Dave

Otto
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Re: Deal or not?

Postby Otto » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:00 pm

Borrow a motor or buy and resell a used motor. Of course that all has you circling the money drain.

Sling 2 Pilot
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Re: Deal or not?

Postby Sling 2 Pilot » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:46 pm

It’s prolly a ULS. If all else is true, 323 TT, always hang’d and NDH, it sounds good for someone who has another $20-30k to spend. That will give you an overhaul on the existing engine or a new 912. Go EAB, put in a 912 iS. $60k still ain’t bad IMO.

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FastEddieB
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Re: Deal or not?

Postby FastEddieB » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:18 pm

Sling 2 Pilot wrote:Go EAB...


E-LSA, right?
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
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N601XP
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Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:49 pm

Re: Deal or not?

Postby N601XP » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:33 pm

To put it in ELSA it has to have a current annual.
Putting in $20-30k defeats the great bargain.
May as well buy one for $60 k without having to jump thru so many obstacles.
Just doesn’t sound right, I believe there were some discussions about this issue on the CT forum on this mandatory overhaul based on time.
The problem is finding an A&P who will do an annual on it under those circumstances.
Dave

3Dreaming
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Re: Deal or not?

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:57 pm

N601XP wrote:I saw a Flight Design CTSW, 2005 with only 323 total time on Barnstormers for the ridiculous price of $32,000, no damage, decent avionics and always hangared.
Too good to be true,right?

So I called the broker handling the sale and here is the situation:
The aircraft is SLSA and the engine has a time limitation that is expired, so it needs to have an overhaul or engine replacement to get in annual.
So great, just change over to ELSA and just keep flying it.
Problem is, to put it into ELSA it must be a current annual. It’s out of annual.
So there it is, a great deal until you figure what it’s going to take to get it flying.
I guess if you have access to a replacement motor, get an annual, do the ELSA changeover and put the original engine back in when it’s converted.
Just thought I’d throw this out there for discussion as I have never seen a situation like this before.
Dave


Sell the old engine to the homebuilt market, then put a new 2000 hour/15 year engine in it. You will have a low time airplane with a new engine for less than $50,000.

Personally I think I can make a pretty good case for going on condition. Flight Design doesn't have a TBO listed for the engine in their maintenance manual. What they do say is to follow Rotax's manual for inspections and maintenance. Rotax's inspection checklist doesn't say anything about TBO. The requirement to follow the manual for maintenance doesn't mean you have to perform the overhaul, but rather if you perform maintenance you must follow the manual.

Until the FAA clarifies its 2 opposing legal interpretations you can be on either side of the fence. Besides inspecting on condition using CFR 43 appendix D should be considered satisfactory means of inspecting the airplane, since it is their own.

comperini
Posts: 252
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Location: California

Re: Deal or not?

Postby comperini » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:48 am

I should probably know this, but I don't... what regulation mandates that the plane have a current annual before being allowed to be converted?
- Bob
Commercial pilot, CFI, DPE, Light Sport Repairman/Maintenance
http://www.sportpilotinstructor.com

N601XP
Posts: 3
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Re: Deal or not?

Postby N601XP » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:10 am

Don’t know the regulation or if there even is one.
The DAR doing my conversion of SLSA to ELSA
Made it very clear that he would be checking the logs for a current condition inspection and it was required.
Dave

Type47
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Re: Deal or not?

Postby Type47 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:35 am

Nice airplane.
So much for Elsa being worth less than Slsa.
I wonder if the engine has the case fretting issues. I believe 2005 falls in the time frame.
The engine may be a candidate for a short block replacement rather than a complete engine.
Type47
LSRI
2006 Tecnam P92 Echo Super ELSA
I’m not a singing grampa.

comperini
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Location: California

Re: Deal or not?

Postby comperini » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:40 am

N601XP wrote:Don’t know the regulation or if there even is one.
The DAR doing my conversion of SLSA to ELSA
Made it very clear that he would be checking the logs for a current condition inspection and it was required.
Dave


I think you have a case to ask him to prove that. FAA ORder 8130.2J doesn't mention that at all
- Bob
Commercial pilot, CFI, DPE, Light Sport Repairman/Maintenance
http://www.sportpilotinstructor.com

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drseti
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Re: Deal or not?

Postby drseti » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:52 pm

Type47 wrote:I wonder if the engine has the case fretting issues. I believe 2005 falls in the time frame.


Unfortunately, it does. Any crankcase s/n lower than 06.0010 is the old design, which is in fact vulnerable to case fretting. But just because it's vulnerable doesn't mean the problem will necessarily develop on that particular engine.

As far as the 12 year TBO limitation is concerned, even in an SLSA it's not mandated in the FARs. The FAA Legal Interpretation that says the manufacturer can't mandate maintenance is more recent that the earlier one that says they can. So you'd be on solid legal ground running the engine on condition. If the A&P/IA won't sign off the aircraft because of this, take the plane to an LSRM, who knows the ASTM rules and probably will!
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Cub flyer
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Re: Deal or not?

Postby Cub flyer » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:52 pm

Have you flown a 2005? There are some differences.
"Perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add but when there is no longer anything to take away." Antoine de Saint Exupery

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JJay
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Re: Deal or not?

Postby JJay » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:10 pm

Where is the airplane?
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