How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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Atrosa
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How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby Atrosa » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:24 pm


TimTaylor
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Re: How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:25 pm

It's not.
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drseti
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Re: How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby drseti » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:14 am

It's lies like that ad that are ruining the LSA movement for everybody.
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Atrosa
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Re: How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby Atrosa » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:37 pm

There is clearly a sticker on the airspeed indicator so that qualifies as an SLA under FAR 04.01 (please note the date before responding about 04.01)

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FastEddieB
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Re: How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby FastEddieB » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:40 pm

I wonder if the airspeed limitation has been in place continuously since built.

If not, that could be a problem. I think.
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TimTaylor
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Re: How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:38 pm

Atrosa wrote:There is clearly a sticker on the airspeed indicator so that qualifies as an SLA under FAR 04.01 (please note the date before responding about 04.01)

No, the certified weight exceeds 1320.
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Re: How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:12 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
Atrosa wrote:There is clearly a sticker on the airspeed indicator so that qualifies as an SLA under FAR 04.01 (please note the date before responding about 04.01)

No, the certified weight exceeds 1320.


There is no certified weight. The gross weight is established by the builder. If they say it is 1320, then it is 1320. Even if Van's post a higher gross weight in their specifications.

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Re: How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:20 pm

The markings on the airspeed indicator doesn't have any effect on whether it is LSA eligible. Besides gross weight the two other biggest factors are maximum speed at Vh. Notice the placard stating the max continuous power settings. If this is enought to keep it under 120 knots at sea level under standard conditions you are good on that respect. The other will be clean stall speed. If the clean stall speed is actually below 45 knots calibrated I would be surprised.

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Re: How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby drseti » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:25 pm

As I read the panel, there's a redline at 120 kts indicated (that's not how Vh is defined), and a max RPM placard with limits at various altitudes to supposedly prevent one from cruising above 120 kts IAS at any altitude (clearly, whoever did that never read the definition of Vh in FAR 1.1). Then the white arc goes down to exactly 45 kts, suggesting that full flap indicated stall speed is 45 kts (never mind that the LSA rule is about zero flap calibrated stall speed). So, even if the max gross weight has never been above 1320, there's just no way this will ever be an LSA, and some unwary buyer is going to be in violation if he or she tries to operate this plane under Sport Pilot rules.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
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drseti
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Re: How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby drseti » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:37 pm

I just noticed that the bottom of the green arc is 85 kts. This is supposed to represent indicated clean stall speed, so calibrated stall speed clean will come out somewhat higher. This alone quadruples the kinetic energy to be dissipated in a takeoff or landing accident, as compared to a real LSA. If we just shrug this off and disregard the resulting significant likelihood of fatalities in what should be a non-injury accident, we share responsibility for the results. So, thread subject line notwithstanding, I AM complaining!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
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TimTaylor
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Re: How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:56 pm

TimTaylor wrote:It's not.
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3Dreaming
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Re: How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:12 pm

drseti wrote:I just noticed that the bottom of the green arc is 85 kts. This is supposed to represent indicated clean stall speed, so calibrated stall speed clean will come out somewhat higher. This alone quadruples the kinetic energy to be dissipated in a takeoff or landing accident, as compared to a real LSA. If we just shrug this off and disregard the resulting significant likelihood of fatalities in what should be a non-injury accident, we share responsibility for the results. So, thread subject line notwithstanding, I AM complaining!


I don't think the markings have any credibility. Having flown a RV6 I don't remember there being that much difference between stall speed clean and with flaps extended. Also the outer range on the airspeed is in MPH not knots.

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Re: How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:22 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:It's not.


I agree, but your claim that the gross weight is more than 1320 still doesn't carry water.

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Re: How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:30 pm

I get it. But we don't know the specified max gross weight, do we? So, maybe it does "carry water." Not only that, but maybe it's correct. I'd be willing to bet whoever built that airplane did not specify max gross at 1320 pounds. I guess it's possible.
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drseti
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Re: How is this an LSA... Not complaining

Postby drseti » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:54 pm

3Dreaming wrote:Also the outer range on the airspeed is in MPH not knots.

My calculations and comments factored that in.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
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