A Christmas story

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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Warmi
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Re: A Christmas story

Postby Warmi » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:39 pm

drseti wrote:
Warmi wrote:.. and who defines it ?


I can answer that one. The A&P who fills out the FAA Form 337. Yes, it's subjective - that's why the A&P has to sign the form.


Ok makes sense. So , I guess, it comes down to just properly motivating your A&P :D
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Re: A Christmas story

Postby ShawnM » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:25 pm

The manufacturer delivers planes unfinished? I’ve never heard such a thing. Isn’t there a parts manual for the plane? The SportCruiser has an “illustrated parts catalog” or IPC and every part on the plane is listed in this catalog. Yes, EVERY part. If the part is not in the IPC then you can’t legally put it on a S-LSA SportCruiser. We don’t have a MEL unless you count the IPC as our version of one.

But the SportCruiser come completely finished by the manufacturer. So if I bought a brand new Sting I’d still have to buy additional parts to complete it? Seems very odd to me.

I’ve also never heard of a 337 being used on a LSA but I’m also not an A&P.

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Re: A Christmas story

Postby Warmi » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:40 pm

Actually that seems pretty common practice among LSAs manufacturers to deliver a basically finished plane to a particular dealer and have him then customize and install things like avionics , grips etc ... different markets have different preferences and sometimes it is more economical do have it bought and installed locally.
Beside , the US dealer seems to have full control and authority to define the content of MEL for the US market.

The bottom line is that the customer gets a fully finished and operational product and you can think of the dealer as an extension of the factory with various powers to make certain decisions locally.

Personally, to me this sort of flexible arrangement makes much more sense than a rigid and predefined set of packages offered by some LSA manufacturers.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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Re: A Christmas story

Postby ShawnM » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:48 pm

Deleted, oops
Last edited by ShawnM on Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: A Christmas story

Postby ShawnM » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:50 pm

Warmi wrote:Actually that seems pretty common practice among LSAs manufacturers to deliver a basically finished plane to a particular dealer and have him then customize and install things like avionics , grips etc ... different markets have different preferences and sometimes it is more economical do have it bought and installed locally.
Beside , the US dealer seems to have full control and authority to define the content of MEL for the US market.

The bottom line is that the customer gets a fully finished and operational product and you can think of the dealer as an extension of the factory with various powers to make certain decisions locally.

Personally, to me this sort of flexible arrangement makes much more sense than a rigid and predefined set of packages offered by some LSA manufacturers.


Don’t get me wrong it does sound appealing in some ways but since I’ve only owned ONE airplane and my manufacturer does not allow ANY changes whatsoever this is all I know as to how it comes. The SportCruiser is imported into the US only by the “factory owned” importer here in Florida. It’s complete and assembled by the manufacturer to their exact specs with NO deviation from the IPC. The buyer gets no say so in anything other than color. So if what you describe is “common practice” then this is the first I’ve heard of such a thing.

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Re: A Christmas story

Postby Warmi » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:58 pm

This is my first plane as well but I did spent a few months talking to various dealers etc before I got my Sting and that was my impression on different ways various manufacturers maintain their dealership networks.

Anyway, you are now your own dealer and get to define your own MEL - as good as it gets. :D
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Re: A Christmas story

Postby drseti » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:55 pm

ShawnM wrote:
I’ve also never heard of a 337 being used on a LSA but I’m also not an A&P.


337s are not applicable to SLSAs, Shawn. That's why any modification requires an LoA.
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Re: A Christmas story

Postby ShawnM » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:37 pm

That's what I thought Paul and I figured you were talking certified aircraft when the discussion of A&P's came up earlier. There's an A&P at my airport who's rebuilding a Mooney that's older than I am and he had to fill this form out because of the MANY, MANY changes they are making.

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Re: A Christmas story

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:35 pm

There are many beautiful, highly desirable 50+ year old airplanes flying today. I'm just sorry I could not buy my friends 1968 M20C that was fully decked out and had new leather interior and new paint.
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Re: A Christmas story

Postby ShawnM » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:31 am

TimTaylor wrote:There are many beautiful, highly desirable 50+ year old airplanes flying today. I'm just sorry I could not buy my friends 1968 M20C that was fully decked out and had new leather interior and new paint.


I do know you love them Tim. This one is a 1967 M20E and is a complete restoration, and I mean complete. He bought it very, very cheap and the engine had 400 hours SMOH with a new prop. He said he basically got it for the price of the engine. Somewhere in the high $20K range if I remember correctly. They actually flew it here from South Carolina and when it arrived you'd take one look at it and swear it was not airworthy. They are adding Garmin G5 instruments, a very cool JPI engine monitoring display, new avionics, new leather interior, autopilot, basically new everything. Also every speed mod that you can add to a Mooney. Some crazy new sloped windscreen and of course new paint when they are finished. I helped design the new instrument panel in CAD to get it waterjet from aluminum for all the new instruments. They just installed all new windows and ran it for the first time since they got it back together about 2 weeks ago. So far so good. I'm not into old planes but it's been great to see the progress on this plane over the last year. I'm sure you'd love it.

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Re: A Christmas story

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:42 pm

A 201 windshield is one of the first mods most Mooney owners do. My point was and is, a well maintained 50 year old airplane is every bit as desirable as any other airplane to most pilots. Metal airplanes can last almost forever if maintained properly. In reality, other than GPS, not much has changed in regards to aviation in 50 years. My friends Mooney had IFR GPS and every other updated goodie except radar. The normally aspirated, carbureted Lycoming 180 hp is almost bullet proof. We filed 142 knots at 10 gph with 50 gallons on board.
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