Getting Started and purchasing a LSA

[mcurcio1989]

Hey all I am new to the board here I have read around some posts here and had a lot of questions answered but I figured I would in introduce myself as well as some questions I have for you all.

My name is Matthew I'm a 24 year old mechanical Engineer and I live in NW Ohio. I have been flying a Powered Paraglider for the last 3 years. I love this form of aviation but a two seater amphibian is something that has been in the plans for a long time now. I have done a lot of research on the Sea Reys and Aventura II's and after talking to Jason Spink at Aero Adventure, I am really sold on buying a used Aventura II from them. I would love to build but it just doesn't seem like the best option at this time. My plan is to get my sport pilot license locally this spring / summer as well as the repairmen certificate. Then once I have that I am going to go down to Aventura's location in FL and get my Sea Plane rating down there (should be able to get tailwheel up here). I should be ready to by next year at this time. Here are my questions as I firm the plan / budget:

Can you all advise some insurance companies to shop around?

Could any rotax 912 owners give a ballpark number on an average yearly maintenance cost on the 912? (Since it is an E-LSA, and I'll have my repairman cert., I will be doing maintenance and annuals myself)

Does anyone on this board have any experience with the Aventura's or know anyone that does?
(I would like to put together some ballpark numbers for what the annual cost of airframe maintenance / upkeep will be.)

Thanks in advance and please feel free to leave any other comments or concerns.

[Nomore767]

As far as insurance companies, I've had some contact with a view to a possible purchase.

I found AOPA Insurance to be very helpful. They don't insure themselves rather they are brokers and can help you find a few competitive companies, although most policies are actually underwritten by one or two companies, such as AIG.

Rates will vary according to your pilot qualifications, experience as a pilot, and experience in the type you want to fly.

Good luck in all your light sport endeavors!

Cheers, Howard

[FastEddieB]

I've had years when I don't think I spent $100 on my ROTAX.

Just oil and filters and plugs* an not much else.

Of course, you have to factor in 5-year hose changes, which can run close to $2k. And eventual carb overhauls and stuff.

But routinely, my engine has been very inexpensive to maintain for its first 400 hours or so.


*plugs are about $2.25 each, so you can replace all eight for less than a single regular aviation spark plug.

[dstclair]

Of course, you have to factor in 5-year hose changes, which can run close to $2k. And eventual carb overhauls and stuff.

Keep in mind this is not REQUIRED as per the FARs although it is strongly recommended by Rotax. Observance of TBO (engine, prop) is also not REQUIRED for Part 91 operation. Of course, what is required may be short of what is a good practice.

[drseti]

Can you all advise some insurance companies to shop around?

Welcome aboard, Matthew. I have linked from my flight school website a few companies that cover LSAs

http://www.AvSport.org/acft/index.html#insurance

By all means, shop around, as rates and coverage are highly variable.

[drseti]

Matthew, going the ELSA route and getting the LSRI certificate will save you quite a bit on annuals. My flat-rate for a Rotax-powered SLSA, for example, is $850 (plus parts and labor for any unanticipated repairs or modification). I have about 1500 hours on my 912ULS-powered trainer now, and engine maintenance has been fairly inexpensive in a flight school environment. Oil changes run me under $50 for oil and filter. I change spark plugs every 100 hours, for $25 worth of plugs and 50 cents in silicon grease. Carb overhauls can run you a couple of hundred for the kit, and that should be done every 200 hours. If you're running 100LL, you'll need to pull the gearbox and send it out for service every 600 hours -- costs $200 plus shipping, and you'll use $5 worth of loctite when you reinstall it. I've had to replace the exhaust system twice in those 1500 hours, at several hundred apiece, used $1100 worth of rubber at the five year point, replaced the mechanical fuel pump twice (once covered by warranty, the other time $85), have gone through a couple of oil pressure sensors ($35 each), and had to replace the voltage regulator once -- maybe $150. All in all, cheaper to maintain than most certified engines I've owned.

[mcurcio1989]

Thanks so much for all the feedback thus far! Really good information for me. I'm a gearhead and I have never paid a mechanic to do any work for me (Like I am sure most of you do, I like my toys and plenty of them!!). The ability to work on the engine myself is really a huge draw to me and I am happy to hear that maintenance costs are very reasonable. I researched the cost of routine maintenance and it sounded good as you guys are confirming. I was mostly concerned with unplanned repairs - which it sounds like are not to common. That is good, especially in aviation!

Any other guys (or gals) with experiences or opinions please do tell. Thanks

[Jack Tyler]

Mathew, congratulations on setting a clear set of flying-related goals...which sound both challenging (in a good way) & interesting. Welcome aboard.

For digging out information on your plans, your a/c choice and training options, be sure to consult with SPA if you haven't already - www.seaplanes.org You might find them helpful in networking with owners of similar LSA amphibs and float planes. And if you plan on visiting Rockledge this Spring, then a stop at their HQ would be worth your effort. (Lakleand, FL - on the EAA Sun 'n Fun grounds on the back side of KLAL).

Given your ELSA & repair training plans, I would expect two of your major flying expenses will be a hangar and fuel, the former dictated by your location and the materials used in the Aventura's construction and the latter to the extent you aren't able to find mogas which the Aventura can use. In fact, one thing you can research right now is where to best base your future a/c based on hangar availability, hangar cost, and access to mogas required by the airframe as well as the 912. You'll find a mix of opinions about whether E10 mogas of the appropriate octane is prudent for aviation purposes and your time with the Aventura manufacturer and one of the Rotax distributors would be well spent discussing this issue to your satisfaction. And if self-fueling is your plan, yet another local issue to check out when shopping airports is what the airport owner/operator's policy is on fuel storage. You'll find info on that topic in a recent thread here and also discussed within the last two months on AVweb.

I would be surprised if both Aero Adventure and SPA weren't among your better sources of information on insurance carriers who write for LSA amphib a/c. And for that info and a general overview of things you Midwestern Aventura owners should know about, ask Aero Adventure for some owner referrals. It's usually not too difficult to get an airplane owner to talk about his/her airplane. <s>

[drseti]

Matthew, the 16 hour LSRI course is a great start, as it will enable you to do condition inspections on any ELSA you own. It will also authorize (but not necessarily qualify) you to both inspect and maintain your Rotax engine. But to be truly Rotax competent, I recommend you take at least the first two (service and maintenance) of four available Rotax courses. They run two days each, and are offered by a variety of providers. See my EAA webinar on LSA Maintenance (http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=2873008673001) for details.

[drseti]

Re. Amphibians: i really like the SeaRey. Took a close look at them (again) at Expo last month. I don't really have the time to tackle a homebuilt project at this point in my life, but if I were going the hull route, that's one I'd consider. There's also a beautiful new SLSA amphib biplane made in Brazil, being imported by Brian Boucher out of Spruce Creek. It was featured in a recent AOPA Live This Week video. I watched Brian fly it off of Lake Jackson at the Expo splash-in, and was truly impressed. Jack, Given your sailing background, I'm surprised you haven't caught the seaplane bug.

[FastEddieB]

Matthew, the 16 hour LSRI course is a great start...It will also authorize (but not necessarily qualify) you to both inspect and maintain your Rotax engine.

As a data point, the 16 hour course I took really did not touch upon the ROTAX at all.

In fact, there was very little maintenance covered at all.

And that makes sense, since the rating is given to be able to inspect - not anything else.

Other courses may bring maintenance into the picture, but that seems beyond the purview of the particular rating sought here.

[Jack Tyler]

" Jack, Given your sailing background, I'm surprised you haven't caught the seaplane bug."

Paul, if we had been powerboaters, then maybe. That's all about an engine forcing a hull to bang against nature seeking speed & distance (or in this case, flight). Sailing, at least as we experienced it, is much more about working with nature to reach an agreed-upon outcome rather than trying to overcome it. Or so it seemed to me...

[drseti]

From your description, Jack, I guess I'd have to equate sailing to soaring.

[Jack Tyler]

"From your description, Jack, I guess I'd have to equate sailing to soaring."

Paul, now THAT's an area of aviation where I too have been surprised at my lack of interest. I think it boils down to what primarily drives our interest in flying, which is pretty much the same as it was with sailing: visiting a diversity of interesting destinations plus the challenge of getting there. Soaring by and large is for me like bay or coastal sailing: the principal pleasure comes from the 'doing', the sensual pleasures and the satisfaction with the skill sets in use. But for us, adding specific destinations and a somewhat defined timetable to the mix, with the challenges that presents, is where the juices truly flow.

And now back to Matthew's original post...

[Torque]

Matthew, the 16 hour LSRI course is a great start...It will also authorize (but not necessarily qualify) you to both inspect and maintain your Rotax engine.

As a data point, the 16 hour course I took really did not touch upon the ROTAX at all.

In fact, there was very little maintenance covered at all.

And that makes sense, since the rating is given to be able to inspect - not anything else.

Other courses may bring maintenance into the picture, but that seems beyond the purview of the particular rating sought here.

I help teach this class for a short time. We talked a lot about the Rotax. I guess each persons class is a little different.

Tony