Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

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drseti
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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby drseti » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:37 pm

TimTaylor wrote:I turn my phone off when I get in the plane.


And what about your iPad? I use mine as nav/wx backup, so it needs a network connection (apparently in violation of FCC rules).
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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:05 pm

drseti wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:I turn my phone off when I get in the plane.


And what about your iPad? I use mine as nav/wx backup, so it needs a network connection (apparently in violation of FCC rules).

I don't pay for cellular service for my iPad so it doesn't connect to any cell towers. On the ground, I connect it to the internet at home using WIFI or in the car, on the way to the airport, using my iPhone hotspot. In the air, my iPad gets weather and traffic via ADS-B using a Stratux. There is no need for a cellular connection in the air. I use my iPad as primary navigation and the Garmin G300 as backup.
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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby HAPPYDAN » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:08 pm

Check me if I'm wrong, but aren't there some commercially available aviation headsets that are cell phone connectable/compatible?

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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:12 pm

HAPPYDAN wrote:Check me if I'm wrong, but aren't there some commercially available aviation headsets that are cell phone connectable/compatible?

Yes, you can use them on the ground or listen to recorded music in the air. It is against the law to connect to cellular service in the air. This is another example of respecting the law or not. It's a choice we all make and part of our value system.

In the past week, I've had 3 people tell me about how they cheat on their income taxes. I've NEVER cheated on my taxes in 50 years of filing taxes. Some people seem to think it's OK. Character seems not to matter in this country anymore.
Last edited by TimTaylor on Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby drseti » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:22 pm

TimTaylor wrote:It is against the law to connect to cellular service in the air.


That kind of made sense two decades ago, when cellular spectrum availability was limited, and expensive. Airborne use could conceivably have brought down the whole network. Clearly, that's no longer the case, since (a) many pilots are unaware if that FCC rule, (b) many who are aware of it ignore it, and (c) I haven't seen the cel networks collapse under the load. There are, I think, about 200,000 aircraft in the US, and about 200,000,000 cellphone users. If all the aircraft were airborne at the same time, and all the pilots were using cellphones, the impact on the network would be negligible.

No, I'm not advocating ignoring the FCC rule. I'm advocating abolishing it.
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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:24 pm

Send a tweet. Personally, I have no idea of the need or advisability for the regulation. As long as it's in place, I will follow it. For me, it's not an issue. I get my weather in the air via ADS-B. I don't file flight plans because I use flight following on all but local flights. I have zero reason to use cellular service in an airplane.

I'm sorry, I said I was done posting here. Bye again.
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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby Warmi » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:45 pm

drseti wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:It is against the law to connect to cellular service in the air.


That kind of made sense two decades ago, when cellular spectrum availability was limited, and expensive. Airborne use could conceivably have brought down the whole network. Clearly, that's no longer the case, since (a) many pilots are unaware if that FCC rule, (b) many who are aware of it ignore it, and (c) I haven't seen the cel networks collapse under the load. There are, I think, about 200,000 aircraft in the US, and about 200,000,000 cellphone users. If all the aircraft were airborne at the same time, and all the pilots were using cellphones, the impact on the network would be negligible.

No, I'm not advocating ignoring the FCC rule. I'm advocating abolishing it.


Ha - good luck.

The backlog is pretty atrocious - just 10 years ago they finally managed to get rid of the Spanish American War Tax of 1898 on long distance phone service.

https://taxfoundation.org/spanish-ameri ... 1898-2006/
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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby Jim Hardin » Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:28 pm

Really don't care... Cellphones have taken the role of CB radios of past. FCC required station and operator license then it got away from them and they were quite about it.

That said, I have only used mine to text about a scheduling conflict while my student was flying. Even then, eyes were mostly outside.

I always tell my students that I will ONLY take a call in flight if it is flight school business. I may look at my phone, as I also run navigation software on it but never just to read text messages or chit chat. I also strongly suggest they do the same.

Never had an issue with it.

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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby drseti » Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:44 pm

Jim Hardin wrote:I may look at my phone, as I also run navigation software on it but never just to read text messages or chit chat.


I'm with you there, Jim.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby dstclair » Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:07 pm

Jim Hardin wrote:Really don't care... Cellphones have taken the role of CB radios of past. FCC required station and operator license then it got away from them and they were quite about it.

The FCC actually attempted to remove the restriction around 3 years ago but there was a groundswell of pushback from both the public and the airlines. Seems no one wants to sit beside someone droning on some inane conversation for 4 hrs from NY to LA. And the airlines don't want to be the bad guys. As a multi-million mile traveler on two different airlines, I can't say as I disagree.

Paul is right from a technology perspective -- there isn't too much risk to the cell network these days in using a cell phone at altitude. Once again the FCC, around 10 years ago, was open to changing IF someone would PROVE there was not an issue. Another time that no one took them up on it.

Also, have you even noticed that cell antennas are aimed downward? This makes it pretty difficult to get reliable reception above 5K feet. My personal experience is that reception is good 3K and below, OK -- 3K - 5K and pretty bad above 5K. Of course, signals can bounce off a lot of things so your mileage will vary.

Without have a 'pico' cell station onboard a fast moving aircraft (jets), your reception (if you can connect) is not going to be very good. The speed of the aircraft will force your device to switch towers faster than the network can adjust so you'll end up dropping a lot of calls. Going to suck your battery dry pretty quick. Low and slow folks would be just fine.

One soap box issue -- I'm a big time techie nerd and have spent my career in 'high tech'. Using technology is integral to how I choose to live and make a living. That being said -- I have not ever seen the need make or take a call while flying. 22 years of have a mobile phone and not one call in the air. And, yes, I can connect my phone to my headset. I prefer to focus on the task at hand, reduce the distractions and enjoy the experience. Heck, I even wait to pull up Uber until after I've secured and post-flighted my aircraft on the ground. But that's just me. :)
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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby Wm.Ince » Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:18 pm

As a pilot, exercising my emergency authority, I would not hesitate to use my cell phone, during a situation, to facilitate coping with a potentially dangerous scenario. Use your imagination to picture when that may be the case.

Would anybody here rather crash, than use his cell phone to get out of a serious jam?

That cell phone is a last resort, “get out of jail free card.” But . . . use it wisely.
Last edited by Wm.Ince on Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby dstclair » Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:23 pm

Agree that in an emergency all bets are off and do what is necessary.
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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby Scooper » Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:49 pm

In an emergency some rules take a back seat to survival.
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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby foresterpoole » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:50 pm

Wm.Ince wrote:As a pilot, exercising my emergency authority, I would not hesitate to use my cell phone, during a situation, to facilitate coping with a potentially dangerous scenario. Use your imagination to picture when that may be the case.

Would anybody here rather crash, than use his cell phone to get out of a serious jam?

That cell phone is a last resort, “get out of jail free card.” But . . . use it wisely.


I'll second that, this article from Plane and Pilot magazine illustrates some instances https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/cell-phone-to-the-rescue/#.XCUpRFVKipo

If I am remembering correctly there is an Air Safety Institute video on an occurance where a gentleman lost all electrical power and eventually used his cell phone to text and get vectored to the nearest airport. I was never aware of the FCC rule, that means that every time I have flown with my cell phone in my bag and turned on (pretty much every time) then I've been breaking that law without even knowing it. I find it interesting that this type of information is not covered in ground school and on an FAA written somewhere, it sounds like pertinent information we all should know but do not. Since I rent, the aircraft I fly are not ADS-B compliant, I doubt they will be ADS-B (In) compliant even when they are brought up to spec. Without a cell signal or a receiver that is portable I'd loose near real time weather (yes I am aware there is a delay in ADS-B or Sirius Weather) and I kind of like that for situational awareness during the summer season of convection thunderstorms here in the southern US.
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Re: Pixel 3 commercial. Landing plane and cell phone rings

Postby MrMorden » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:37 am

TimTaylor wrote:I've NEVER cheated on my taxes in 50 years of filing taxes.


A few years ago, Money magazine gave the same tax information to ten top tax accounting firms, and asked them to prepare returns based on that information. All ten came up with different tax liability numbers.

I respectfully submit that you literally have no idea whether you have "cheated" on your taxes, in the eyes of the IRS. Nobody does. Just like everybody else, You can only do your best and hope the glaring eye of federal fury does not fall upon you. If they want to get you on a tax violation, they will.
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