Heads up Air speed display on your iPad for .99 cents

ussyorktown · Post by **ussyorktown** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:08 am

I agree. It would be nice if it was a repeater of steam gauge of air speed. But it ain't and I KNOW THAT. I would play around with it on calm days and never even consider it on days when there is 10 knots down the runway. (for example)
Let us be open to new ideas from the new guys. The Republic will not fall because I have a new toy that I will ignore if it does not aid me.
This thread is hitting new heights. So, for all other adventurers who can see some wisdom in my pushing the envelope a bit, the app is called
Speedometer Pro
www.hodelapps.com/speedometer-pro

I set it to knots.
I set it to digital numbers so when you make the ipad horizontal the numbers are about five inches high and white against black background. I mounted it with velcro right on the center cowling (picture to follow) and I'm having some fun. (better than practicing law with some snarling judge who hates his job and me and tries to take out his miserable life out on me).

FastEddieB · Post by **FastEddieB** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:24 am

ussyorktown wrote:The Republic will not fall because I have a new toy...

No, but your airplane might.

I asked a few questions as thought experiments a page or so back that remain unanswered. Involving headwinds and tailwinds and Denver on a hot day and the like. They were meant as a springboard for discussion.

Please go back and review them if you have time.

Here's another:

It's been a calm day and your iPad's been working perfectly. But at some point in your last pattern, a gentle 10k tailwind has popped up. It's local, and is not even budging the wind sock. It remained unnoticed as you begin your roundout and flare.

How might that affect your iPad landing aid?

Let us be open to new ideas from the new guys.

I don't think there are many Luddites posting here. Tech is great! I'm typing this on an iPad and bought WingX7 Pro for use in the plane. But landing a plane involves visual cues, proper pitch and airspeed control. Among other things. Ground speed has no part in the equation, so a "new idea" that incorporates irrelevant data will get shot down, not because it's new, but because it's bad.

ussyorktown · Post by **ussyorktown** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:58 am

But landing a plane involves visual cues, AGREED
proper pitch AGREED
and airspeed control.AGREED
Among other things. AGREED

Ground speed has no part in the equation AGREED TO A POINT.

On calm days when the ground speed and the relative wind are the same and/or very similar then my toy will come out. It will be consulted and/or ignored if it does or does not fit into the total mix of a proper touch down.

As I said earlier, "training wheels". Maybe this is just what I need to convince myself that I have to get lower and slower before I flare as I have in the past pulled back only to get some ground effect and rising up. So with the training wheels in the mix then I'll get the sight picture better and then I can put it away and go back to only viewing pictures of Thai women/men? on my ipad.

"Its a man baby!"

FastEddieB · Post by **FastEddieB** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:30 pm

Well, I did my best, and my questions remain unanswered.

I suppose my work here is done.

Best of luck going forward.

ussyorktown · Post by **ussyorktown** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:42 pm

It's been a calm day and your iPad's been working perfectly. But at some point in your last pattern, a gentle 10k tailwind has popped up. It's local, and is not even budging the wind sock. It remained unnoticed as you begin your roundout and flare.

I've answered that. The speedometer is only 1% of my calculation and if it is wrong because of a gust then I follow my experience and training and deal with it.
I'm not going to say "but...but...the IPad doesn't say that there is a wind gust."
In the CTSW wind gusts are my closest friends. I have her all lined up nicely and then suddenly I am being blown port, and then starboard and am fighting all the way down to the white line. I am a foot above the white line and let her touch down and a gust at that milisecond will push her over 2 feet. Obviously the Ipad's opinion in these circumstances shall not be useful nor consulted.

dstclair · Post by **dstclair** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:51 pm

Aurora certainly has light winds compared to some areas but there appears to be 5-10 mph winds virtually everyday during daylight:

http://www.wunderground.com/history/air ... atename=NA

The above link has winds for the month of June and July looks similar.

When an airport reports calm, that typically means below 5 kts. 5 kts is a large percent of airspeed at landing. Of course, these may be cross winds but you're still using a display that happens to be close to correct only as an exception. Yes, you're just glancing at it but it will be wrong the vast majority of the time. What happens when an unforecast 5kt gust happens are you're flaring based on ground speed?

It's clear no one here is going to change your mind. We're just ensuring an unsuspecting student pilot doesn't read these posts and think that this practice is correct, encouraged or a good idea.

ibgarrett · Post by **ibgarrett** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:31 pm

so a "new idea" that incorporates irrelevant data will get shot down, not because it's new, but because it's bad.

I'm pretty sure that's the way the iPad got created int he first place. Hey - Steve Jobs, I got this idea for a device... To which SJ said - "Nah, MS already built that device 10 years ago and it still hasn't gone anywhere"....

(sorry - I just couldn't help myself - please proceed.

)

ussyorktown · Post by **ussyorktown** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:01 pm

Yes. If I stop posting it is because you are 100% correct and I was staring at my ninety nine cent app with my head down inches from the screen, with gusts all around and I ended up in a horrible ball of carbon, glue and Rotax parts and old Mad Magazines and Playboy Magazines.

comperini · Post by **comperini** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:48 pm

comperini wrote:I'll make you a deal... find one.. just one flight instructor that approves of this, and I'll apologize for querstioning you.

ussyorktown wrote:OK

ussyorktown wrote:What is the big deal? R U kidding? On the 3 times I've tried it the thing works out just fine. The wind was calm and of course if I've got a cross wind or 10 knot wind then the GPS is worthless for this.
I'll fly tomorrow. I'll show my idea to a couple of flight instructors and then i'll report back.

Since we have not yet seen your report, does this mean you couldn't find one single instructor who agrees with your method?

ussyorktown · Post by **ussyorktown** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:18 pm

It means that I've been sitting around the house all day. I don't like to fly on weekends because that is when the crazy people are in the sky.
1. On downwind to base I turn only to see someone not making radio calls zoom ahead of me on final. I do a loop to get back into base.
2. As I set up again for base ANOTHER crazy person cuts in front of me, with no radio calls. I loop around and watch him out my starboard window.

He has not made the runway because he thinks the grass is OK to land on (left of 35). It isn't at Aurora as there is a weather station erected there. He then scoots over to the left of the grass as he sees ashphalt and figures this is runway 35. It isn't. It is highway 551 with wires on poles and cars and many trucks.
3. He then scoots over from over the road, back over the grass and misses runway 35 whilst heading eastbound. (to right) He is so low now (I shit you not) he lands backwards on the run up area for runway 35.

4. I land and do a touch and go (w/o the evil iPad) and on final I am looking down on him still sitting backwards in the runup area for 35.
5. Another plane goes into the runup area and says "you ready to go or should I go ahead?" Mystery pilot says, "no i'm not ready to go."

6. Another time, the 3rd busiest airport in Oregon with no tower, I am taking off on runway 35. I am at 800 feet and see another airplane right at my altitude coming right for me. I go left. Airplane THEN announces he is on instrument approach for runway 17.
7. I tell FBO crowd this and they all nod and say "we all have a story just like yours. We'll be glad when they get the tower in here." (this year)

Soooooooooooooo. I don't fly on weekends. It is too unhealthy.

comperini · Post by **comperini** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:32 pm

ussyorktown wrote:It means that I've been sitting around the house all day. I don't like to fly on weekends because that is when the crazy people are in the sky.

So on Friday, when you said "I'll fly tomorrow. I'll show my idea to a couple of flight instructors and then i'll report back."

You really didn't mean "tomorrow" after all.. you meant some week day.

Got it.

ussyorktown · Post by **ussyorktown** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:46 pm

That is correct. I am an inherently dishonest person and cannot be believed in anything I say.
"Please forgive me for all my obvious shortcomings."

drseti · Post by **drseti** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:56 pm

OK, gang, I'm going to put on my moderator's hat and step in here. No more sniping from either side of the hold-short line, please. We're all trying to ensure safe operation; ad-homenim attacks and sarcasm benefit nobody. Take a deep breath, and let's all find a way to address the safety issues, independent of what we may think of each other.

Thanks.

And, since this has evolved into a safety discussion, I'm going to move it from the "Hangar Talk" to the "Safety Corner" forum.

FastEddieB · Post by **FastEddieB** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:05 am

I'll try to put this delicately...

Since we're now in the "Safety Corner", my concern goes beyond someone using a groundspeed display as a landing aid, or to use GPS groundspeed to avoid stalling. Many experienced pilots and instructors here have already deemed these actions unsafe, and they are - for easily seen reasons.

The flight instructors here have all been taught to look for certain "Hazardous Attitudes" in our students, other pilots and even ourselves.

They are: Macho, Anti-Authority, Invulnerability, Impulsivity, and Resignation.

ussyorktown's response to the advice here falls, I think, into the "Anti-Authority" attitude. The snarky and sarcastic comebacks are not indicative of an open mind that really wants to learn. Similarly, his reluctance to engage at least one instructor here (me) by responding to his questions seems to me to not be conducive to learning. And pilots should always be learning, whether they have 50 or 5,000 hours.

I took the time to engage and put forth questions and thought experiments that might have led ussyorktown to that "Aha!" moment that instructor's yearn to provoke in their students. If that effort is for naught, well, so be it. All I can do is try.

ussyorktown · Post by **ussyorktown** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:31 pm

I have received no response as to why I should view the GPS opinion as to my air speed IN CONJUNCTION with my view out the window, my quick check of the speed guage in the airplane, my own experience and habits on seeing what a good set up is, etc.
As a 62 year old man successful in many fields I am willing to listen to all. When I get conflicting opinions I then will make a determination based on common sense.
I know that teaching students how to do spins and recover was just a peachy keen idea but after losing too many pilots this carved in stone skill was dropped.
I say, we have a new tool. You haven't tried my technique (giving the IPad a 1% input into the landing) but are very quick to condemn it.
As this has gone from an amusing discussion to something else, I must say there is a reason why 3/4 of the students who start drop out, why general aviation is getting older and older etc. I have found most old aviators quite willing to pass on the knowledge they have acquired through experience and when even more senior aviator advised them. I've never encountered a flight instructor or senior pilot that I was stubborn, stupid, bull headed because I came up with an idea that tentatively works for me. (One instructor who really couldn't teach how to land a CTSW and could not get the idea across did say, "I think you should instead take up boating." But I switched instructors and in 2 lessons was doing very nice touchdowns).
I don't care as I have always faced opposition in every new endeavor and become an innovator and controversial in whatever field. Eventually my crazy ideas are accepted and duplicated in every field I have been in during my 6 decades. http://www.aspecialdayguide.com/bernathresume.htm I don't accept anything by a rubber stamp because an authority figures says "do it that way" without thinking about it.
I'll go up Monday with the evil IPad

and play around with it. My 3 landings with the evil IPad had gave me the confidence I needed to get way low and slow for a perfect kiss the runway landing. WTF is wrong with that instead of porpoising down the runway and looking like a pirouette-ing Paris Hilton on a hotdate?