Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

H. Paul Shuch is a Light Sport Repairman with Maintenance ratings for airplanes, gliders, weight shift control, and powered parachutes, as well as an independent Rotax Maintenance Technician at the Heavy Maintenance level. He holds a PhD in Air Transportation Engineering from the University of California, and serves as Director of Maintenance for AvSport of Lock Haven.

Moderator: drseti

User avatar
Paul_G
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:30 pm
Location: Chelan, WA

Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby Paul_G » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:55 pm

I own a 2016 Sirius TL-3000 and I am questioning the wisdom (or need) of the wing inspection documented by TL-Ultralight. I just had my annual (185 hours) and discussed the inspection listed by the manufacturer. My A&P and he thinks it is nuts. His take is - why cause a problem when none exists. He also said that he would be a rich man if all airplanes had such a mandate.

Here is what the maintenance document states:

Wings. Remove wings. 200 hours
interval

Fuel tanks. Inspect Check wing leading edge and
forward surface of root rib for cracks and fuel leak. Make
sure there are no foreign objects within area of the fuel
tank. Inspect fuel intake filter for obstruction, the fuel
vents, fuel cap, connections for leaks.
200 hours
interval


As my A&P points out, if there was a fuel leak, you would see it. Why create a problem by removing the wings, fuel lines, etc... If you have a possible problem, inspect it... if not leave it alone.

I love the airplane. What do you think?

Paul
Paul G
N400TL 2016 Sirius TL-3000
Chelan, WA (S10)

Wm.Ince
Posts: 896
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:27 pm
Location: Clearwater, FL

Re: Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby Wm.Ince » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:15 pm

Paul_G wrote:I own a 2016 Sirius TL-3000 and I am questioning the wisdom (or need) of the wing inspection documented by TL-Ultralight. I just had my annual (185 hours) and discussed the inspection listed by the manufacturer. My A&P and he thinks it is nuts. His take is - why cause a problem when none exists. He also said that he would be a rich man if all airplanes had such a mandate.

Here is what the maintenance document states:

Wings. Remove wings. 200 hours
interval.

Fuel tanks. Inspect Check wing leading edge and
forward surface of root rib for cracks and fuel leak. Make
sure there are no foreign objects within area of the fuel
tank. Inspect fuel intake filter for obstruction, the fuel
vents, fuel cap, connections for leaks.
200 hours
interval

As my A&P points out, if there was a fuel leak, you would see it. Why create a problem by removing the wings, fuel lines, etc... If you have a possible problem, inspect it... if not leave it alone.

I love the airplane. What do you think?

Preventative maintenance.
It is better to head off a problem before it rears its ugly head while you are flying.
Besides that, things do tend to wear out and move around during the normal life span of an aircraft.
If the maintenance manual prescribes it, I do it. It's there for a good reason. You you don't do it, you are setting yourself up for a liability issue or much worse.
Bill Ince
CTSW (E-LSA)
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator

3Dreaming
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:21 pm

Flight Design has a similar requirement, and it is not a big deal. On the Flight Design it takes 2-3 hours.

User avatar
Warmi
Posts: 881
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:35 pm
Location: Frankfort, IL

Re: Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby Warmi » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:00 pm

I had it done on my TL Sting S4 in 2018 at 200 hours ...I paid a lot more than the typical annual for this and other 200 hour items but the mechanic never said a word about skipping it.

BTW. It is not a big deal , it is even listed in the how-to section at http://www.sting.aero/owners/howto/wing-replace.pdf
I presume it is similar for the Sirius as well.

Removal and replacement of wings is simple and straightforward, but it must be performed or overseen by an A&P mechanic to assure that the connection of control linkages, pitot-static tubes, wiring and fuel lines is properly done and that the airplane is airworthy. Please check the maintenance manual for clarification of this requirement.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 2106
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby MrMorden » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:20 am

It's not an unusual requirement, especially for composite airplanes. Composites have no yield strength and can't bend, so the typical failure mode is catastrophic failure.

If you don't do it, how can you know the condition of the spars and their attach points to the airframe? How do you know if the duel tanks are leaking?

Typically it's just remove a couple of bolts, slide the wing out to inspect, then slide it back in. It's more like a prostate exam than heart surgery... :lol:
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

User avatar
JJay
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 1:36 pm
Location: Orange Park, FL

Re: Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby JJay » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:34 am

I do it every other Annual on my Sting. Not that big a deal, but easier with two people.
____________________________
2006 Sting Sport SLSA - N686N
LSRM-A

3Dreaming
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:35 am

As an A&P not doing the inspection creates a legal issue. The sign off for the condition inspection is supposed to use the language that is written in the operating limitations issued with the airworthiness certificate. They state that, "the aircraft was inspected in accordance with the manufactures maintenance and inspection procedures". If the mechanic is not going to follow the procedures, then how can he legally sign off the condition inspection?

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 6298
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby drseti » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:08 am

3Dreaming wrote:"the aircraft was inspected in accordance with the manufactures maintenance and inspection procedures".


Well, that's what the signoff is supposed to say. You'd be amazed at how many SLSA and Experimental logbook entries I've seen that say inspected in accordance with Part 43 Appendix D.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

User avatar
FastEddieB
Posts: 2681
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby FastEddieB » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:32 am

My Sky Arrow maintenance checklist does not include wing removal.

But delve into the Maintenance Manual and the chapter on wings indicates they should be removed annually.

Rather than remove completely, what I’ve done is support the wing, here with an engine lift.

Image

That lets me remove the strut and wing attachment bolts individually to inspect and hit with Corrosion-X. Removing the wings completely involves just the wingtip lighting connector, and removing the flap and aileron control rods - fuel is in the fuselage. And, of course, retaping the wing roots. Still, I’m deterred by the potential of damage while manhandling the wings off and back on.
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
FastEddieB@mac.com

User avatar
Paul_G
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:30 pm
Location: Chelan, WA

Re: Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby Paul_G » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:45 am

Thank you everyone for your replies.

My A&P said he thought it would be an all day job to do the inspection. It appears not to be the case. Does anyone have an estimate of the time involved?

His concern was creating unnecessary wear-and-tear on the parts involved.
Paul G
N400TL 2016 Sirius TL-3000
Chelan, WA (S10)

Sling 2 Pilot
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:53 pm

Re: Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby Sling 2 Pilot » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:16 pm

Paul_G wrote:Thank you everyone for your replies.

My A&P said he thought it would be an all day job to do the inspection. It appears not to be the case. Does anyone have an estimate of the time involved?

His concern was creating unnecessary wear-and-tear on the parts involved.


I would think you would use new hardware to reattach the wings. I know on my Sling, it the wings come off, new bolts go on.

User avatar
Warmi
Posts: 881
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:35 pm
Location: Frankfort, IL

Re: Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby Warmi » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:19 pm

On Sting ( not sure if Sirius is the same ) the main spar of each solid carbon fiber wing extends through the fuselage beneath the seats and engages the wing root on the opposite side. The spars are locked in place by a centrally located large reusable pin.
There is no bolts involved in the installation.

My understanding that this setup is similar to what a lot of composite gliders are using.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

3Dreaming
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:38 pm

On a Flight Design I can prep the airplane for wing removal while the fuel is draining, and get everything ready in about 45 minutes. The actual removal requires at least 2 people, but 3 makes things a little nicer. 10 minutes to pull the wings with the help, then about another hour to replace fuel sight tubes, inspect and lube all attach points, and lube the pushrod rollers. Then another 15 minutes of help to reinstall the wings to a point where I can finish up by myself. Because of the need to have a helper I normally charge 3 hours labor for the complete job.

3Dreaming
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:19 pm

drseti wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:"the aircraft was inspected in accordance with the manufactures maintenance and inspection procedures".


Well, that's what the signoff is supposed to say. You'd be amazed at how many SLSA and Experimental logbook entries I've seen that say inspected in accordance with Part 43 Appendix D.


Or inspected in accordance with a annual inspection.

You are correct in that people that come from a GA background outside of the light sport world don't really understand it. This mechanic is a good example. He doesn't want to pull the wings because of what ho knows about other aircraft different than the Sirius.

I had a customer who was looking at a ELSA for purchase. I told him to ask for a copy of the operating limitations that go with the airworthiness, and the guy said that they were in the POH. :roll:

User avatar
Warmi
Posts: 881
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:35 pm
Location: Frankfort, IL

Re: Sirius TL-3000 wing removal at 200 hour intervals

Postby Warmi » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:24 pm

Btw Paul ... been watching some of your videos - looks like you are having a lot of fun , introducing people to a GA plane experience.
Of course, it doesn’t hurt that you live in a beautiful area to begin with ... :D
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois


Return to “Ask The Mechanic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests