LSA Flying Club idea

There's hundreds of flying clubs around the country that own and manage aircraft for their members. Aside from the camaraderie, clubs make flying more affordable.

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joey4420
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Location: Cincinnati Ohio

LSA Flying Club idea

Postby joey4420 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:32 pm

Okay, Here are my thoughts, of course I haven't gotten it down in a nice orderly fashion yet; but I am working on it.

I live just outside of KHAO in Butler County Ohio, I am going for my sport cert at this time and find that trying to locate an LSA to rent to fly or without driving an hour or more is difficult to say the least. The Greater Cincinnati area has over 2500 Registered Pilots (I do not have a Sport pilot to Private Pilot breakdown).

I want to start an Equity based LSA club consisting of 3 aircraft to start (dream big), I am thinking a low wing (Zenith 601 XLB EAB) maybe a Kitfox IV or Zenith 750 high wing/STOL aircraft, and older Taylorcraft or Aeronca taildragger.

I am looking at 24 members (more would require a 4th aircraft, and if Less then 20 then 1 less aircraft).

If I can buy 3 aircraft for 75k or less it would be $4000.00 buy in per member (this would give us enough money right off the start to rebuild or repair an aircraft out of pocket in case we have issues).

$30.00 an hour (or less) dry this should easily cover maintenance.

$80 a month fees to cover hanger and Insurance

I have found a hanger space large enough for 3 aircraft for $1050.00 a month (I plan to negotiate this to include an office space to keep log books and a computer for preflights). Hanger includes work benches and an air-compressor as well as Hazmat storage (MSDS Lockers).

I am only waiting on cost of insurance at this time before I can truly calculate all costs.

I want to open it up to all (Sport or PPL) and even non-Pilots who what to learn.

I plan to have a CFI check ride to be performed in all aircraft before getting sign off to solo, this should include but not limited to 4 hours per aircraft and no less than 6 takeoff and landings. The reason is as you know a PPL may not be use to the light wing load of an LSA and for insurance purposes.

Monthly meetings and at least 4 hours annually for safety training. My thought is every month at the meetings we can have some form of safety briefing and then spring and fall have a couple 1 hour sessions.

My goal would be to get the hourly dry cost down to around $20, but I have to wait and see the condition of the aircraft purchased and how close to Overhaul they are. Most LSA or older small engine aircraft should be in the $30 per hour wet, so it should be obtainable.

I am also hoping to have either a CFI as a member or have one or two available to provide training in the aircraft in case someone wants to either get a Sport cert or move up to a PPL or if I can get one so equipped to have the CFI teach IFR in the aircraft.

Any thoughts or ideas? I like to get feedback so it will help me with my presentation as I am currently set to speak at a fly-in next month. I still need to get the name and several other steps before I even thing of a presentation, but I know I am getting closer.
Joey
Cincinnati OH
Sport Pilot
Ercoupe N99773

TimTaylor
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Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Postby TimTaylor » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:24 pm

Here's a spreadsheet I made some time ago. Feel free to use this to estimate cost. The problem I've had in the Atlanta area is finding anyone really interested.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane
Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea
Flight Instructor Airplane Single & Multiengine
Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument
BS Engineering NC State
MBA Wisconsin

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joey4420
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Location: Cincinnati Ohio

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Postby joey4420 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:45 pm

Thanks Tim, This is pretty much where I was already at on cost, except the planes I have in mind will only cost 25k or less. I was figuring almost the same money for 3 aircraft so 70-75k.

But great info none the less.

Thank you.
Joey
Cincinnati OH
Sport Pilot
Ercoupe N99773

TimTaylor
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Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Postby TimTaylor » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:53 pm

Just change the figures in the model to fit your proposal. You'll find a combination of values and formula that you can easily change one or the other as needed.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane
Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea
Flight Instructor Airplane Single & Multiengine
Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument
BS Engineering NC State
MBA Wisconsin

7ecaflyer
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Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Postby 7ecaflyer » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:49 am

Hi guys - curious if you were able to make any headway with your flying club? I’m working on a proposal to do something very similar at our little airport. I’m new to the forum and stumbled on your post doing some searching. Any chance either of you might have the spreadsheet Tim mentioned?

Thanks - Jake

TimTaylor
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Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Postby TimTaylor » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:50 pm

This, I think, is a link to a spreadsheet I prepared when looking at a Rotax powered aircraft. Just go in and change the figures to whatever you think the correct and current figures should be. No need to argue over the numbers I have used or whether you should include opportunity cost or not, etc. :mrgreen:
Last edited by TimTaylor on Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane
Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea
Flight Instructor Airplane Single & Multiengine
Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument
BS Engineering NC State
MBA Wisconsin

TimTaylor
Posts: 1475
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Postby TimTaylor » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:54 pm

I don't like the way Dropbox is now doing file sharing. I'll see if I can figure out how to upload this to Sport Pilot Talk as a file instead of a link.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane
Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea
Flight Instructor Airplane Single & Multiengine
Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument
BS Engineering NC State
MBA Wisconsin

TimTaylor
Posts: 1475
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Postby TimTaylor » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:56 pm

ROTAX.xlsx
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane
Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea
Flight Instructor Airplane Single & Multiengine
Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument
BS Engineering NC State
MBA Wisconsin

HAPPYDAN
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Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Postby HAPPYDAN » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:29 pm

Rather than start a new thread, I decided to add to this one since my subject is essentially the same. First, the scenario.
8-12 flyers get together and form a Limited Liability Corporation (LLC) in the guise of a not for profit aviation club, the Boomer Babies. Each agrees to pitch in $10,000 to purchase a low-time RV-12, value $60,000. Dues are $150 per month, cost to fly $30 per hour, dry. The plane would be sole asset of the LLC, registered and insured thusly. The hangar is provided by a non-member, at $360 a month. Insurance quote is about $2200, pre-buy at $600, ADSB and other avionics upgrades about $2,000.
So this is our initial straw man, not a comprehensive plan by any means. We are getting advice and support from a similar club in Oregon, whose RV-12 (like ours) was built at the factory facility there, in Auburn (I think?). I tried to find the cost analysis spreadsheet link mentioned previously, but was unsuccessful, probably due to my lack of computer skills. We currently have 6 firm commitments, and are fishing for a few more.
Any comments, advice, or suggestions are welcome. Also, I'd like to see that aforementioned spreadsheet. I think it would be an extremely helpful device, rather than starting from scratch. Thanks, All!

TimTaylor
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Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Postby TimTaylor » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:44 pm

PM sent.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane
Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea
Flight Instructor Airplane Single & Multiengine
Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument
BS Engineering NC State
MBA Wisconsin

HAPPYDAN
Posts: 371
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:49 am

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Postby HAPPYDAN » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:12 pm

TimTaylor wrote:PM sent.

Got your PM, but I'm having trouble sending a reply. So here goes:
Thanks, Tim! My email is (deleted)
Any advice you can provide is welcome. This may be my last chance to "Get Off the Ground" - literally!

HAPPYDAN
Posts: 371
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:49 am

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Postby HAPPYDAN » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:05 pm

HAPPYDAN wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:PM sent.

Got your PM, but I'm having trouble sending a reply. So here goes:
Thanks, Tim! My email is (deleted)
Any advice you can provide is welcome. This may be my last chance to "Get Off the Ground" - literally!

Thanks again, Tim. Got both and downloaded. It'll take some time to sort through, and maybe adjust to fit our situation, but it sure puts us way ahead on things to consider. Now for the delete the email address part; I don't see any way to do that, but it is a good idea. I have deleted your email from my account.

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drseti
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Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Postby drseti » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:18 pm

In the interest of security, I've taken the liberty of deleting the email address from both of your posts.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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HAPPYDAN
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:49 am

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Postby HAPPYDAN » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:06 pm

Thanks, Paul.

HAPPYDAN
Posts: 371
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:49 am

Re: LSA Flying Club idea

Postby HAPPYDAN » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:51 am

Just an update, TWIMC. We got a good look at our prospective purchase yesterday eve, a very nice Experimental RV-12. Under 500 hours, no accident history, all SB and AD applied, dual displays, ADSB-out installed. Seller needs a bigger plane, wants $62,500 firm. The drawback? Our club only has 6 committed members so far. Still fishing for at least 2 more. Now looking like dues could be a little higher, $200 per month, with initial investment $10,000 - $12,000. Still just guesstimating, but proceeding slow but sure.


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