CFI Sport = Impotence !

[scottj]

If the flight review was done in an airplane that the Sport instructor was rated for, e.g. Light Sport, then it covers other airplanes above. A Sport Pilot cannot fly a non LSA. But a Private pilot can fly an LSA and have his flight review count upwards.

Quit fishing and call the local FSDO and ask for their guidance. Better to get to know them before you get in trouble than after.

[roger lee]

A sport pilot can fly a non lsa. He can fly and experimental so long as it is with in LSA limits.

[drseti]

A sport pilot can fly a non lsa. He can fly and experimental so long as it is with in LSA limits.

Just to be a bit pedantic: there are two kinds of LSA. Homebuilts are E-LSA (experimental light sport) and factory-built are S-SLA (special light sport). So, as I see it, a sport pilot flying an experimental that meets LSA limits is still flying an LSA -- it's just an E-LSA rather than an S-LSA.

Confused yet?

[KSCessnaDriver]

Just to be a bit pedantic: there are two kinds of LSA. Homebuilts are E-LSA (experimental light sport) and factory-built are S-SLA (special light sport). So, as I see it, a sport pilot flying an experimental that meets LSA limits is still flying an LSA -- it's just an E-LSA rather than an S-LSA.

Technically, there are 3. S-LSA's, E-LSA's and E-XP (Experimental). Other than what's already registered, to get an E-LSA, you basically have to built it from a kit that you buy from a company, that has certified the plane as an S-LSA.


And a sport pilot can fly more than an LSA. They can fly any airplane, just not at PIC.

[bitten192]

You can also but an SLSA and convert it to an ELSA (but you can't turn it back into an SLSA).

Ernie

[Helen]

Instead of complaining about it, help us flight it! I and a bunch of other NAFI members are working on this and other CFI-S issues through NAFI and we'd love your help.

If you are a NAFI member and would like to work with us to promote sport flight instruction and grow NAFI to better serve sport flight instructors, drop me a note. If you are not a NAFI member and would like to work with us to promote sport flight instruction and grow NAFI to better serve sport flight instructors, join NAFI www.nafinet.org and then drop me a note.

[email protected]

Helen

[roger lee]

Hi Ernie,

Your statement about going from SLSA to ElSA is true, but it is not illegal to to go back to SLSA as many think. FAA will allow it, but after you have had it in ELSA and done what ever you want to it you probably won't ever get the planes Mfg. to sign it off again as an SLSA because all the responsibility falls on them that it is like they sold it in the first place. I have had this discussion with Edsel Ford of the FAA and I had to stand corrected, myself.

So long as an amateur built experimental (not an SLSA or ELSA) meets the LSA limits an LSA pilot can fly it. An amateur built experimental is not an LSA it is just what it is called, but you are allowed to fly it so long as it meets the criteria of an LSA. There are several experimental's that fly and operate within the LSA limits and an LSA pilot is allowed to fly them.

[Paul Hamilton]

Instead of complaining about it, help us flight it! I and a bunch of other NAFI members are working on this and other CFI-S issues through NAFI and we'd love your help.

If you are a NAFI member and would like to work with us to promote sport flight instruction and grow NAFI to better serve sport flight instructors, drop me a note. If you are not a NAFI member and would like to work with us to promote sport flight instruction and grow NAFI to better serve sport flight instructors, join NAFI www.nafinet.org and then drop me a note.

[email protected]

Helen

Well said. If everyone put all this effort into doing something about it we would be further ahead at solving this problem.

As an interesting note: When I was going through my DPE training many of the things they (FAA) were telling me did not make sense. I was the only one in the class who questioned this because I needed to get it right for the checkride book. I could tell this was starting to irritate them (FAA) but it made sense to question authority and hold them FAA 610 accountable for this stuff making sense. Finally on the 3rd day it came to a head. They (FAA) said “We do not make sense, we make policy. If you do not like it …….”.
Not that I liked to hear it, not that I agree, but it this made sense and I have learned to live with it (after several therapy sessions). “IT IS WHAT IT IS UNLESS WE CHANGE IT”. Whether we like it or not, the solution is through the large organizations such as AOPA, NAFI and EAA. Perhaps we could do something rather than complain.

[Paul Hamilton]

Second thought. Do not get me wrong, I think this is a great place to understand the basics of this simple sport pilot rule but we need to make more noise in the proper direction for change. This is new ground so lets fix it.

[bryancobb]

++1 on getting our organizations in gear and involved.

The angle of attack (pilot pun) could go something like this:
1) Get the Authors of the regulation to make a statement about what they INTENDED when they worded the rule as they did. They probably won't go on record.
2) Speak about the close scrutiny the rule received during the NPRM stage and the fact that it reached consensus.
3) Speak of the FACT that it passed muster by all who reviewed it before it was enacted, including FAA legal gurus, no doubt.
4) It was enacted.

[zdc]

I'm a subpart K instructor and at first I was angry about this issue. No more. Sport is a special catagory with it's own rules. Some of the logic is hard to accept, but I don't think the FAA is going to allow it to evolve past its' present state. Flying a sport plane is no more easier than flying a C172, but you need a medical to fly a C172. If the FAA were to drop the medical requirement for flying airplanes like the C172, let's face it, Sport would disappear.

If a student states that he/she has no medical issues and may want to get a private later, my advice would be to skip sport altogether.

[ArionAv8or]

If a student states that he/she has no medical issues and may want to get a private later, my advice would be to skip sport altogether.

I disagree with the above statement. As long as you complete your training with a CFI, as opposed to a CFIS, all the training you do will count towards the PPL if you choose to advance your cert. Sport Pilot will allow you to gain experience, fly sooner and give you the time needed to make that decision without having to sacrifice flying time. I completed my SP with the possible thought of continuing my education and gaining my PPL only to discover given the time I have to fly and the conditions I wish to fly in, SP is perfect for me. I wasted NO money, have been flying the entire time and did not rush to make a decision. Moving up to PPL after you have completed the SP allows you to gain time in the air and become a more competent pilot, this will be a lot less stressful situation because of the experience and confidence you have gained.

[Paul Hamilton]

Just so there in no confusion, if you train with a CFI (CFI who can train private pilots), your traing can be used for a sport and a private pilot certificate.

If you train with a CFIS (sport pilot CFI), your training only counts towards a sport pilot license. It can NOT be used for private. If you want to go on to private pilot, you will need 20 more minimum hours with CFI who teaches private.

Not that any body likes this, including me, but this is the way it is which we all hope changes in the future of which some people are working on.

[Paul Hamilton]

Some upper level thoughts on this “impotence” topic in general. Do not worry or be intimidated by someone who has climbed the aviation ladder. There is almost always someone who flies higher and faster. Here is the typical pecking order where someone can always look down on another pilot. For example: the astronauts look down on the multiengine turbine pilots, the multiengine turbine pilots look down on the single engine turbine pilots, the single engine turbine pilot looks down on the multi engine piston pilot, the multi engine piston pilot looks down on the single engine private pilot, the single engine private pilot looks down on the single engine sport pilot, the sport pilot looks down on the ultralight pilot, and finally, all pilots look down on non pilots.

Now this is not true for all but keep this pecking order in mind when you hear someone criticize sport pilots or sport pilot CFI’s. Another way to look at this, I got to fly in a piper cub with astronaut Gordon Cooper, who was at the top of the pecking order and he respects all pilots simply because they aviate and did not sense any pecking order impotence from the top.

[dholly]

Just so there in no confusion...

If you train with a CFIS (sport pilot CFI), your training only counts towards a sport pilot license. It can NOT be used for private. If you want to go on to private pilot, you will need 20 more minimum hours with CFI who teaches private.

Paul -

Sorry, I'm confused. I thought the FAA has interpreted the flight instruction rules in such a way that should a student earn his sport pilot certificate under a CFI-S, his/her total flight time and solo time will be credited towards requirements for a private pilot or higher certificate, but not his/her dual instruction. Wouldn't one simply need to meet / redo only the minimum 15 hour dual instruction sport pilot certificate requirement for Airplane category and Single Engine Land/Sea class?

Thanks