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Re: 1320 limit
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:06 am
by Sling 2 Pilot
TimTaylor wrote:Sling 2 Pilot wrote:chumash wrote:Hello, I'm new here, as well as a "new pilot in the making" as I just passed my FAA written and will be starting flight training in 2 weeks hopefully. My question about the 1320 lb limit concerns the TAF Sling2, which is what I will be training in. The Sling2 is maxed out in other parts of the world at 1540 lbs and is one of the reasons I am looking at it as a purchase, in case the max weight for LSA increases,I would possibly be able to take advantage of the increase.
I understand the reasoning behind not flying over design limits for LSA designed for 1320lbs, and am not willing to fly over the 1320 lb weight in a current Sling2. My question is if the weight changes do occur, would the Sling be safe at 1540, since it's designed for that weight, or does being "LSA" preclude that?
As Warmi stated, existing Sling 2 LSA’s are all built the same. The factory has already stated they embrace the change if and when it comes for existing aircraft. Until that time comes, if you fly in the USA, it’s 1320 until the change, unless you’re EAB.
And have a Private Pilot certificate and 3rd class medical or Basic Med.
Yes, which I have.
Re: 1320 limit
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:36 am
by drseti
Sling 2 Pilot wrote:if you fly in the USA, it’s 1320 until the change, unless you’re EAB.
Even with an E-AB, you can't just arbitrarily change max gross weight. You're limited to whatever the DAR signed you off for.
Re: 1320 limit
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:12 am
by ShawnM
drseti wrote:Sling 2 Pilot wrote:if you fly in the USA, it’s 1320 until the change, unless you’re EAB.
Even with an E-AB, you can't just arbitrarily change max gross weight. You're limited to whatever the DAR signed you off for.
Yup, I know a fellow pilot with a E-AB RV-12 LSA and he follows all the same rules I do except he needs an A&P to do his annuals and not a LSRM. I'm sure there are other rules but it's still an LSA and he follows the LSA guidelines.
Re: 1320 limit
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:53 am
by Sling 2 Pilot
drseti wrote:Sling 2 Pilot wrote:if you fly in the USA, it’s 1320 until the change, unless you’re EAB.
Even with an E-AB, you can't just arbitrarily change max gross weight. You're limited to whatever the DAR signed you off for.
Correct, build a Sling 2 and it’s 1540. Cam’s Sling will be 1540.
Re: 1320 limit
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:07 am
by Warmi
Yeah, the factory let’s you build Sling 2 planes as either 1320 lbs Light Sport or as 1540 lbs EAB.
It is the same plane just different certification.
Re: 1320 limit
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:54 am
by 3Dreaming
drseti wrote:Sling 2 Pilot wrote:if you fly in the USA, it’s 1320 until the change, unless you’re EAB.
Even with an E-AB, you can't just arbitrarily change max gross weight. You're limited to whatever the DAR signed you off for.
The gross weight can be changed for E-AB fairly easily depending on when the operating limitations were issued. Older operating limitations may require requesting a ne airworthiness certificate, but it is just a paperwork issue. No new inspections are required. Newer operating limitations just follow the requirements for a major change, which include notifying the FSDO and placement back into Phase 1 flight testing.
Re: 1320 limit
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:17 pm
by TimTaylor
TimTaylor wrote:Sling 2 Pilot wrote:chumash wrote:Hello, I'm new here, as well as a "new pilot in the making" as I just passed my FAA written and will be starting flight training in 2 weeks hopefully. My question about the 1320 lb limit concerns the TAF Sling2, which is what I will be training in. The Sling2 is maxed out in other parts of the world at 1540 lbs and is one of the reasons I am looking at it as a purchase, in case the max weight for LSA increases,I would possibly be able to take advantage of the increase.
I understand the reasoning behind not flying over design limits for LSA designed for 1320lbs, and am not willing to fly over the 1320 lb weight in a current Sling2. My question is if the weight changes do occur, would the Sling be safe at 1540, since it's designed for that weight, or does being "LSA" preclude that?
As Warmi stated, existing Sling 2 LSA’s are all built the same. The factory has already stated they embrace the change if and when it comes for existing aircraft. Until that time comes, if you fly in the USA, it’s 1320 until the change, unless you’re EAB.
And have a Private Pilot certificate and 3rd class medical or Basic Med.
Which the OP does not have or plan to get and the guy who asked the question. I am responding to him.
Re: 1320 limit
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:52 pm
by drseti
3Dreaming wrote:Newer operating limitations just follow the requirements for a major change, which include notifying the FSDO and placement back into Phase 1 flight testing.
Thanks for the clarification, Tom. I've never done this for an experimental, but I did raise the max gross wt of an SLSA to 1320 from a lower number. It required an FAA airworthiness inspector to personally verify the mod (and the revised dataplate) and issue both a new airworthiness certificate and new Operating Limitations.
Re: 1320 limit
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:06 pm
by 3Dreaming
I don't think that E-AB operating limitations actually have an assigned gross weight that is approved by the DAR.
Re: 1320 limit
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:49 pm
by drseti
3Dreaming wrote:I don't think that E-AB operating limitations actually have an assigned gross weight that is approved by the DAR.
Then, who establishes E-AB operating limitations, if not the DAR?
Re: 1320 limit
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:06 pm
by HAPPYDAN
Yes, but - wouldn't all those groovy performance charts and specifications in the POH have to be modified to allow for the potentially increased maximum load? Same conversation was held some years ago regarding the Cessna Skycatcher, before it was discontinued. Would Cessna recalculate and retest the data to provide the updated info to the approximately 200 odd owners? Or, how does that work? Good Luck, Chuck; you're on your own?
Re: 1320 limit
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:22 pm
by 3Dreaming
drseti wrote:3Dreaming wrote:I don't think that E-AB operating limitations actually have an assigned gross weight that is approved by the DAR.
Then, who establishes E-AB operating limitations, if not the DAR?
The DAR establishes limitations, but not performance limitations like standard category aircraft have.
Re: 1320 limit
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:43 pm
by TimTaylor
HAPPYDAN wrote:Yes, but - wouldn't all those groovy performance charts and specifications in the POH have to be modified to allow for the potentially increased maximum load? Same conversation was held some years ago regarding the Cessna Skycatcher, before it was discontinued. Would Cessna recalculate and retest the data to provide the updated info to the approximately 200 odd owners? Or, how does that work? Good Luck, Chuck; you're on your own?
Caution: This post is purely speculation on my part.
Or, Cessna could simply say, we have not tested the SkyCatcher to any higher weight limits and are not going to recertify to a new LSA definition. Why would they since they are no longer selling new SkyCatchers?
Re: 1320 limit
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:59 am
by 3Dreaming
HAPPYDAN wrote:Yes, but - wouldn't all those groovy performance charts and specifications in the POH have to be modified to allow for the potentially increased maximum load? Same conversation was held some years ago regarding the Cessna Skycatcher, before it was discontinued. Would Cessna recalculate and retest the data to provide the updated info to the approximately 200 odd owners? Or, how does that work? Good Luck, Chuck; you're on your own?
My guess is manufacturers who have tested their designs at a higher weight will offer a new model at that higher weight. If allowed by the new regulations governing LSA I suspect they would also offer a path for older aircraft that can safely be flown at a higher weight to increase their gross weight as well. Until the new rule is out no one knows what will be possible.