1320 limit

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Scooper
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Re: 1320 limit

Postby Scooper » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:36 am

FastEddieB wrote:*Maybe we could call that one “The Bernath Principle”. And sadly in his case we got to see the end result of a certain mindset.

Eddie, there are probably a lot of members who recently joined here and are unfamiliar with the "Fear not. I shall never be mentioned in a NTSB report." Daniel A. Bernath story.

http://www.sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2574

https://www.nbc-2.com/story/37320899/small-plane-crashes-in-bonita-springs-field-one-dead

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20180122X32841&AKey=1&RType=Prelim&IType=FA
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Re: 1320 limit

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:37 am

He must have had a heart attack or something. Planes don't just fall out of the sky for no reason.
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Re: 1320 limit

Postby FastEddieB » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:58 am

TimTaylor wrote:He must have had a heart attack or something. Planes don't just fall out of the sky for no reason.


Hardly the first thing that came to my mind!
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Re: 1320 limit

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:07 pm

FastEddieB wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:He must have had a heart attack or something. Planes don't just fall out of the sky for no reason.


Hardly the first thing that came to my mind!

Yes, but I didn't want to go there.
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Re: 1320 limit

Postby ShawnM » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:29 pm

1320 is the limit and should never be exceeded, follow the rules, they are there for a reason. If some moron wants to load his LSA with a MTOW of 1320 pounds to 1500+ pounds then he/she is just an idiot and NO ONE should fly with them nor should they endanger others by taking them along. Not to mention the danger to people on the ground. Geez.

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Re: 1320 limit

Postby chumash » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:36 pm

Hello, I'm new here, as well as a "new pilot in the making" as I just passed my FAA written and will be starting flight training in 2 weeks hopefully. My question about the 1320 lb limit concerns the TAF Sling2, which is what I will be training in. The Sling2 is maxed out in other parts of the world at 1540 lbs and is one of the reasons I am looking at it as a purchase, in case the max weight for LSA increases,I would possibly be able to take advantage of the increase.

I understand the reasoning behind not flying over design limits for LSA designed for 1320lbs, and am not willing to fly over the 1320 lb weight in a current Sling2. My question is if the weight changes do occur, would the Sling be safe at 1540, since it's designed for that weight, or does being "LSA" preclude that?

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Re: 1320 limit

Postby Warmi » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:51 pm

TAF ( the manufacturer of Sling 2 planes ) explicitly said that they will allow owners of LSA slings to increase their gross limits to 1540 if the weight change does occur, similar assurances were given by Britstell representatives.

How it all is going to work out , it is hard to say... but certainly you are better off owning a plane that has this option available.
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Re: 1320 limit

Postby drseti » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:01 pm

Remember that, at this point, any weight increase is just speculation. The FAA has not yet issued a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. If and when they do, it takes 2 years minimum to go through the process of publication, public comments, reply comments, revisions, publication of those, comments and replies to the revisions, possible further revisions, and enactment. The Sport CFI revision took six years from petition to enactment. The Basic Med process took ten!

We have no idea what the final rule will be, or when. It may apply only to new production aircraft, or it might include existing ones. We just don't know. So, any purchasing decision that factors in a revision to FARs is probably ill-advised.
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Re: 1320 limit

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:28 pm

chumash wrote:Hello, I'm new here, as well as a "new pilot in the making" as I just passed my FAA written and will be starting flight training in 2 weeks hopefully. My question about the 1320 lb limit concerns the TAF Sling2, which is what I will be training in. The Sling2 is maxed out in other parts of the world at 1540 lbs and is one of the reasons I am looking at it as a purchase, in case the max weight for LSA increases,I would possibly be able to take advantage of the increase.

I understand the reasoning behind not flying over design limits for LSA designed for 1320lbs, and am not willing to fly over the 1320 lb weight in a current Sling2. My question is if the weight changes do occur, would the Sling be safe at 1540, since it's designed for that weight, or does being "LSA" preclude that?


If the definition of LSA changes in the future, the aircraft manufacturer would need to recertify the aircraft to that new definition, if they chose to. There is more than max gross weight involved. Unless and until they did that, you would still be limited to the current definition of LSA for which the aircraft was certified.
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Re: 1320 limit

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:37 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
chumash wrote:Hello, I'm new here, as well as a "new pilot in the making" as I just passed my FAA written and will be starting flight training in 2 weeks hopefully. My question about the 1320 lb limit concerns the TAF Sling2, which is what I will be training in. The Sling2 is maxed out in other parts of the world at 1540 lbs and is one of the reasons I am looking at it as a purchase, in case the max weight for LSA increases,I would possibly be able to take advantage of the increase.

I understand the reasoning behind not flying over design limits for LSA designed for 1320lbs, and am not willing to fly over the 1320 lb weight in a current Sling2. My question is if the weight changes do occur, would the Sling be safe at 1540, since it's designed for that weight, or does being "LSA" preclude that?


If the definition of LSA changes in the future, the aircraft manufacturer would need to recertify the aircraft to that new definition, if they chose to. There is more than max gross weight involved. Unless and until they did that, you would still be limited to the current definition of LSA for which the aircraft was certified.


At this point no one knows what a manufacturer would have to do. Until the final rule is published one can only guess what will be required.

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Re: 1320 limit

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:48 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
chumash wrote:Hello, I'm new here, as well as a "new pilot in the making" as I just passed my FAA written and will be starting flight training in 2 weeks hopefully. My question about the 1320 lb limit concerns the TAF Sling2, which is what I will be training in. The Sling2 is maxed out in other parts of the world at 1540 lbs and is one of the reasons I am looking at it as a purchase, in case the max weight for LSA increases,I would possibly be able to take advantage of the increase.

I understand the reasoning behind not flying over design limits for LSA designed for 1320lbs, and am not willing to fly over the 1320 lb weight in a current Sling2. My question is if the weight changes do occur, would the Sling be safe at 1540, since it's designed for that weight, or does being "LSA" preclude that?


If the definition of LSA changes in the future, the aircraft manufacturer would need to recertify the aircraft to that new definition, if they chose to. There is more than max gross weight involved. Unless and until they did that, you would still be limited to the current definition of LSA for which the aircraft was certified.


Caution: this is my opinion only. Read at your own risk.

This is my educated guess on what will be required if a manufacturer wants an existing LSA to be legal to fly under a new LSA definition. That is, if any new LSA definition allows higher gross weight or higher stall speeds, etc. There would likely be some existing LSA that could be certified to the new definition and some that could not.

In my opinion, any standard certificated aircraft that meet a new LSA definition would be legal to fly once the FAA verified such. For instance, if a C150 (as certified) fell within a new definition, I assume it would be added to the list of standard certificated aircraft that can be flown as LSA.

I doubt it would be as simple as a manufacturer sending out a letter saying our aircraft meet the new LSA definition, so have at it. Although, anything is possible.

This is strictly my opinion. Repeat...this is my opinion.
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Re: 1320 limit

Postby chumash » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:18 pm

Thanks for all the info. I know any change is a long way off and may never happen. I have the Sling2 on my short list because of the 1540lb design weight, and if the FAA allows an increase, then this would be a perfect airplane for us. I need to get mt SPL first, but want to be as informed as possible to finally make a purchase.

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Re: 1320 limit

Postby Warmi » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:49 pm

chumash wrote:Thanks for all the info. I know any change is a long way off and may never happen. I have the Sling2 on my short list because of the 1540lb design weight, and if the FAA allows an increase, then this would be a perfect airplane for us. I need to get mt SPL first, but want to be as informed as possible to finally make a purchase.


Sling 2 is a lovely plane , 1540 lbs or not :D

It was my initial choice but I ultimately chickened out partly due to the price ( 160k for a new one and no lightly used ones on the market) and partly due to the fact that at that time (2017) there were only a dozen or so planes in the US - I want to have a reasonably represented plane with proven record of availability of parts etc ...

Things have changed since then and TAF Sling 2 and 4 planes are selling pretty good ( for an LSA ) , they have active dealerships etc ... things are looking up for them.
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Re: 1320 limit

Postby Sling 2 Pilot » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:59 pm

chumash wrote:Hello, I'm new here, as well as a "new pilot in the making" as I just passed my FAA written and will be starting flight training in 2 weeks hopefully. My question about the 1320 lb limit concerns the TAF Sling2, which is what I will be training in. The Sling2 is maxed out in other parts of the world at 1540 lbs and is one of the reasons I am looking at it as a purchase, in case the max weight for LSA increases,I would possibly be able to take advantage of the increase.

I understand the reasoning behind not flying over design limits for LSA designed for 1320lbs, and am not willing to fly over the 1320 lb weight in a current Sling2. My question is if the weight changes do occur, would the Sling be safe at 1540, since it's designed for that weight, or does being "LSA" preclude that?


As Warmi stated, existing Sling 2 LSA’s are all built the same. The factory has already stated they embrace the change if and when it comes for existing aircraft. Until that time comes, if you fly in the USA, it’s 1320 until the change, unless you’re EAB.

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Re: 1320 limit

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:19 pm

Sling 2 Pilot wrote:
chumash wrote:Hello, I'm new here, as well as a "new pilot in the making" as I just passed my FAA written and will be starting flight training in 2 weeks hopefully. My question about the 1320 lb limit concerns the TAF Sling2, which is what I will be training in. The Sling2 is maxed out in other parts of the world at 1540 lbs and is one of the reasons I am looking at it as a purchase, in case the max weight for LSA increases,I would possibly be able to take advantage of the increase.

I understand the reasoning behind not flying over design limits for LSA designed for 1320lbs, and am not willing to fly over the 1320 lb weight in a current Sling2. My question is if the weight changes do occur, would the Sling be safe at 1540, since it's designed for that weight, or does being "LSA" preclude that?


As Warmi stated, existing Sling 2 LSA’s are all built the same. The factory has already stated they embrace the change if and when it comes for existing aircraft. Until that time comes, if you fly in the USA, it’s 1320 until the change, unless you’re EAB.

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