Deaths

Jason spent 24 years as an air traffic controller at Los Angeles Center, and recently moved east to work in DC in the Airspace office as an air traffic subject matter expert. He is a Sport Pilot, owns a Rans S12XL E-LSA, and got his >87 knot endorsement so he can rent a C162. He's here to answer your questions about ATC procedures and rules, in a strictly unofficial capacity.

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Wm.Ince
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Re: Deaths

Postby Wm.Ince » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:45 pm

TimTaylor wrote:The examiner was my friend and fellow church member Rich Hull. Very tragic accident. Here's the NTSB report.

https://www.ntsb.gov/about/employment/_ ... 61B&akey=2

Rich left a wife and two teenage children.

Sad news.
I knew Rich Hull very well. I did not know he passed away in ‘93 that way. Besides being assigned together, as military aviators, we played tennis together. He was a solid pilot and a good tennis player.
May he rest in peace. We lost a good one.
Bill Ince
CTSW (E-LSA)
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator

TimTaylor
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Re: Deaths

Postby TimTaylor » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:50 pm

Wm.Ince wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:The examiner was my friend and fellow church member Rich Hull. Very tragic accident. Here's the NTSB report.

https://www.ntsb.gov/about/employment/_ ... 61B&akey=2

Rich left a wife and two teenage children.

Sad news.
I knew Rich Hull very well. I did not know he passed away in ‘93 that way. Besides being assigned together, as military aviators, we played tennis together. He was a solid pilot and a good tennis player.
May he rest in peace. We lost a good one.

For sure.
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bryancobb
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Re: Deaths

Postby bryancobb » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:17 am

When I took my Sport CFI checkride,

I did a powerful PowerPoint on this accident and used that as my presented "Ground School" lesson on
airspace, controller/pilot responsibilities, and safety. The DPE said he was blown away because at first,
he was going to argue with me but after my presentation, he had "learned something."

I used my friend's Kitfox III for the test. On that ride, as we were taxiing to takeoff, the muffler on the gorgeous, well-maintained airplane fell off on the taxiway. LOL. The noise was LOUD.
Bryan Cobb
Sport Pilot CFI
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Manufacturing Engineer II, Meggitt Airframe Systems, Fuel Systems & Composites Group
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drseti
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Re: Deaths

Postby drseti » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:59 am

Did your DPE give you a discontinuance?
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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3Dreaming
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Re: Deaths

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:41 am

Sad events for sure.

It has always been my understanding that in class B airspace that ATC was responsable for aircraft separation of VFR aircraft since you are operating under a clearance. That is the reason you are allowed to operate without the standard cloud clearances associated with other airspace. That being said if I am in class B airspace VFR I will still have my head on a swivel.

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bryancobb
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Re: Deaths

Postby bryancobb » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:34 pm

drseti wrote:Did your DPE give you a discontinuance?


No. :) We jumped in another airplane I had 5 hours in and went for it.
Bryan Cobb
Sport Pilot CFI
Commercial/Instrument Airplane
Commercial Rotorcraft Helicopter
Manufacturing Engineer II, Meggitt Airframe Systems, Fuel Systems & Composites Group
Cartersville, Ga
bryandcobb@att.net

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drseti
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Re: Deaths

Postby drseti » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:08 pm

Way to get right back on the horse, Bryan!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

Wm.Ince
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Re: Deaths

Postby Wm.Ince » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:34 pm

bryancobb wrote:
drseti wrote:Did your DPE give you a discontinuance?


No. :) We jumped in another airplane I had 5 hours in and went for it.

Excellent!
March on, soldier.
Bill Ince
CTSW (E-LSA)
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator

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bryancobb
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Re: Deaths

Postby bryancobb » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:31 am

The DPE said,

"You can do it in B's Flightstar if you want to. How long has it been since you flew a Flightstar?"

I replied, "It's been 5 or 6 years and I only have a few hours in one, but let's do it. I'm being evaluated on teaching, not flying."

The 1.5 hour ride went well.
Bryan Cobb
Sport Pilot CFI
Commercial/Instrument Airplane
Commercial Rotorcraft Helicopter
Manufacturing Engineer II, Meggitt Airframe Systems, Fuel Systems & Composites Group
Cartersville, Ga
bryandcobb@att.net

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Jim Hardin
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Re: Deaths

Postby Jim Hardin » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:47 am

In John King’s courses, he also stresses that The tower is responsable for all sequencing and separation of aircraft and vehicles on tne ground! He calls it noise abatement :D

At our field they will not issue a taxi clearance unless you are visible to the tower.

TimTaylor
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Re: Deaths

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:50 pm

§91.113 Right-of-way rules: Except water operations.
(a) Inapplicability. This section does not apply to the operation of an aircraft on water.

(b) General. When weather conditions permit, regardless of whether an operation is conducted under instrument flight rules or visual flight rules, vigilance shall be maintained by each person operating an aircraft so as to see and avoid other aircraft. When a rule of this section gives another aircraft the right-of-way, the pilot shall give way to that aircraft and may not pass over, under, or ahead of it unless well clear.

(c) In distress. An aircraft in distress has the right-of-way over all other air traffic.

(d) Converging. When aircraft of the same category are converging at approximately the same altitude (except head-on, or nearly so), the aircraft to the other's right has the right-of-way. If the aircraft are of different categories—

(1) A balloon has the right-of-way over any other category of aircraft;

(2) A glider has the right-of-way over an airship, powered parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft.

(3) An airship has the right-of-way over a powered parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft.

However, an aircraft towing or refueling other aircraft has the right-of-way over all other engine-driven aircraft.

(e) Approaching head-on. When aircraft are approaching each other head-on, or nearly so, each pilot of each aircraft shall alter course to the right.

(f) Overtaking. Each aircraft that is being overtaken has the right-of-way and each pilot of an overtaking aircraft shall alter course to the right to pass well clear.

(g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.
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TimTaylor
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Re: Deaths

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:34 pm

And yes, the tower is responsible to sequence aircraft for takeoff and landing. However, see and avoid is still in effect in visual meteorological conditions. If simultaneous takeoffs and landing are authorized on parallel runways, the tower can and will clear two aircraft to takeoff or land on the parallel runways at the same time. The tower controller is supposed to advise each aircraft of the other aircraft, but the PIC is ultimately responsible to see and avoid. The tower has no way to prevent a PIC from making a mistake, such as starting a missed approach turn too soon. I think that's probably what happened in this case.

This is why we read back instructions and advise if we have a visual or not. Usually, when you acknowledge you have a visual, the tower controller will say "maintain visual contact with that traffic."

On more than one occasion, I have been cleared for landing at KPDK on RW 21 left or right while another aircraft was cleared to land on the parallel runway. It's a little eerie to look out the window and see a Lear along side of you.
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