Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

[3Dreaming]

Weeds, I don't think so.
I have only been speaking about solo flight. Of course no medical is required for the student to receive flight instruction.

An LSA is just an airplane, just like any other airplane. The fact that it is a LSA doesn't automatically change regulations or pilot privileges. The only time a LSA has any significance over any other airplane is when limitations on the pilot are changed limiting them to only being able to fly a LSA. It is this pilot limitation that determines whether a medical is required.

A student pilot is not required to fly a LSA. They can choose to fly a LSA, but that doesn't automatically change the medical requirements. The medical requirements change when they choose to follow the sport pilot limitations, one of which is the requirement that they must only fly a LSA. They must also follow all the other sport pilot limitations.

Well, actually it does. Most LSA are not IFR certified so an Instrument rated pilot cannot fly IFR in an LSA even though he is licensed and current to fly IFR. That is an aircraft specific restriction. Some LSA are not certified for night flight. Some non-LSA are not certified for instrument and/or night flight. So, the aircraft does, at times, automatically change regulations or pilot privileges.

Point being, it is the totality of the pilot's certification, currency, and medical status as well as the aircraft certification and currency, etc. that establishes what can and cannot be done for the flight in question.

So what regulations or pilot privileges were changed because the airplane was a LSA compared to any other airplane that is not IFR certified or equipped to fly at night?

[TimTaylor]

Well, actually it does. Most LSA are not IFR certified so an Instrument rated pilot cannot fly IFR in an LSA even though he is licensed and current to fly IFR. That is an aircraft specific restriction. Some LSA are not certified for night flight. Some non-LSA are not certified for instrument and/or night flight. So, the aircraft does, at times, automatically change regulations or pilot privileges.

Point being, it is the totality of the pilot's certification, currency, and medical status as well as the aircraft certification and currency, etc. that establishes what can and cannot be done for the flight in question.

So what regulations or pilot privileges were changed because the airplane was a LSA compared to any other airplane that is not IFR certified or equipped to fly at night?

None that I know of. I suppose he can't carry 3 passengers. Is that a privilege?

[TimTaylor]

https://media.giphy.com/media/Y2RLZ5XXYeK0o/giphy.gif

[FastEddieB]

I was about to jump in to see if this thread could make it to 100 posts.

Too late!

[TimTaylor]

There is no difference in student pilot certificates for sport vs. Pvt pilots. The only difference is the requirement that a current FAA medical is required to solo anything other than an LSA.

Apologies to the OP for everything posted beyond this.

[3Dreaming]

https://media.giphy.com/media/Y2RLZ5XXYeK0o/giphy.gif

To funny! I suppose it is time to draft my letter the FAA.

[drseti]

I suppose it is time to draft my letter the FAA.

Think long and hard before doing so, Tom. Seriously contemplate the Law of Unintended Consequences

[3Dreaming]

I suppose it is time to draft my letter the FAA.

Think long and hard before doing so, Tom. Seriously contemplate the Law of Unintended Consequences

I have.

[TimTaylor]

At the risk or reopening this can of worms, perhaps the FAA did not anticipate students getting a Private in an LSA. Maybe they thought a student gets a Sport Pilot certificate in an LSA with a driver's license or a student gets a Private Pilot certificate in a non-LSA with a 3rd class medical. Therefore, the inconsistency was never addressed. Perhaps?

And by the same token, perhaps they never addressed legal PIC's acting as safety pilot in an LSA with a driver's license.

[3Dreaming]

At the risk or reopening this can of worms, perhaps the FAA did not anticipate students getting a Private in an LSA. Maybe they thought a student gets a Sport Pilot certificate in an LSA with a driver's license or a student gets a Private Pilot certificate in a non-LSA with a 3rd class medical. Therefore, the inconsistency was never addressed. Perhaps?

And by the same token, perhaps they never addressed legal PIC's acting as safety pilot in an LSA with a driver's license.

The medical certificate that a pilot is required to hold has always been based on the privileges they are exercising, not the airplane they are flying. It was that way 38 years ago when I learned to fly, and it is still that way now. If you choose to fly a airplane with a drivers license in lieu of a medical you must fly a LSA. Choosing to fly a LSA doesn't automatically change your medical requirements allowing you to use a drivers license, unless you are willing to accept the pilot limitations that go along with it.

[TimTaylor]

At the risk or reopening this can of worms, perhaps the FAA did not anticipate students getting a Private in an LSA. Maybe they thought a student gets a Sport Pilot certificate in an LSA with a driver's license or a student gets a Private Pilot certificate in a non-LSA with a 3rd class medical. Therefore, the inconsistency was never addressed. Perhaps?

And by the same token, perhaps they never addressed legal PIC's acting as safety pilot in an LSA with a driver's license.

The medical certificate that a pilot is required to hold has always been based on the privileges they are exercising, not the airplane they are flying. It was that way 38 years ago when I learned to fly, and it is still that way now. If you choose to fly a airplane with a drivers license in lieu of a medical you must fly a LSA. Choosing to fly a LSA doesn't automatically change your medical requirements allowing you to use a drivers license, unless you are willing to accept the pilot limitations that go along with it.

Thank you Captain Obvious. Maybe I should remind you there was never a provision to fly any airplane with a driver's license until the advent of Sport Pilot and LSA. You keep making the nonsensical argument that it has nothing to do with LSA. It has everything to do with LSA because there is no other aircraft which can be operated with just a driver's license. And yes, WE ALL KNOW, you must operate with Sport Pilot privileges when flying an LSA with a driver's license. Without LSA, there would be no Sport Pilot. Without Sport Pilot AND LSA, there would be no driver's license medical. A Sport Pilot certificate without LSA is useless. The Sport Pilot certificate would not exist without LSA and flying with a driver's license would not exist without Sport Pilot AND LSA.

[TimTaylor]

At the risk or reopening this can of worms, perhaps the FAA did not anticipate students getting a Private in an LSA. Maybe they thought a student gets a Sport Pilot certificate in an LSA with a driver's license or a student gets a Private Pilot certificate in a non-LSA with a 3rd class medical. Therefore, the inconsistency was never addressed. Perhaps?

And by the same token, perhaps they never addressed legal PIC's acting as safety pilot in an LSA with a driver's license.

I'll post this again due to the previous distraction.

[3Dreaming]

Thank you Captain Obvious. Maybe I should remind you there was never a provision to fly any airplane with a driver's license until the advent of Sport Pilot and LSA. You keep making the nonsensical argument that it has nothing to do with LSA. It has everything to do with LSA because there is no other aircraft which can be operated with just a driver's license. And yes, WE ALL KNOW, you must operate with Sport Pilot privileges when flying an LSA with a driver's license. Without LSA, there would be no Sport Pilot. Without Sport Pilot AND LSA, there would be no driver's license medical. A Sport Pilot certificate without LSA is useless. The Sport Pilot certificate would not exist without LSA and flying with a driver's license would not exist without Sport Pilot AND LSA.

Tim, you are trying to make the tail wag the dog. It just doesn't work that way. When I say the airplane doesn't matter I am speaking in broader terms than just sport pilot. I does matter to sport pilots, because it is a limitation on their pilot certificate. For pilots with any other pilot certificate it is just an airplane. If they choose to exercise private pilot privileges in the airplane they need a third class medical. If they choose to exercise commercial pilot privileges they need a second class medical. According to 61.23 if they choose to exercise student pilot privileges they need a medical. It is not until they decide to exercise sport pilot privileges that the airplane becomes important. The privilege drives the need for the medical, the airplane is a limitation of the sport pilot privilege.

[TimTaylor]

Or does he need to apply again for a sport pilot student certificate

Your student can use his student pilot certificate for Sport, Recreational, or Private because a student pilot certificate is not specific to one or the other. Thank God you did not ask about medical requirements.

[bryancobb]

If you have an FAA Student Pilot's License of any flavor, the FAA would have a hard time saying you are doing something wrong if you are in training under the tutelage of a CFI. Under today's rules, students getting their Private License don't even have to have a 3rd Class medical certificate so they may not have that manila card portion of their medical application that served as THE student pilots license in the old days. It also served as a place for their CFI to sign them off solo. This is where the "you need a medical before you can solo" requirement hit a brick wall unless you had been to the flight surgeon and passed. Nowadays, you can still get a class III if you want to and may still get that manilla student pilots license. However, you don't HAVE TO. The FAA probably has a form for "Basic Med" Private students that is very similar to or even the exact same form that Sport Pilot students fill out to get their Student Pilots License.
In plain language, Private and Sport Pilot students get their Student Pilots Licenses THE SAME WAY unless the Private student WANTS to get a Class III Medical for some unexplainable reason.



Sounds like many of you aren't very well-versed in "Basic Med."

Under Basic Med, any person with a Pilot's license, can fly any aircraft up to 6 occupant capacity, WITHOUT even a 3rd class medical.
They can fly day or night. They can fly VFR or IFR. The plane can weigh up to 6000 pounds and be a piston or turbine. It can have retracts and have a variable pitch "constant speed" prop.

The only restriction is ...YOU CANNOT CHARGE. No Compensation or hire.

This change, plus the change allowing dual instruction from a Sport Pilot CFI to be loggable toward Private and higher licenses, basically means not having a medical really doesn't prohibit any of the flying of most pilots flying for recreation.

I go to my FBO routinely and rent their late-model 172's in spite of the fact that I haven't held a medical OF ANY CLASS in over 10 years. I load up
my family of 3 and go 500 miles or more.

The practical benefits of the Sport Pilot rating THESE DAYS are very very few and are as follows,
* If you own an ultralight-type aircraft that's too heavy for part 103, you may be able to get it N-Numbered and legally fly it as an LSA and log the time and count it toward higher pilots certificates.
* If you own any LSA, you can be taking your friends and family flying in it as soon as 20 hours logged.
* If you are lucky enough to be near an FBO that has an LSA for rent, you may be able to take it flying as soon as 20 hours logged.
* All the perks related to flying with your drivers licence have disappeared for Sport Pilots except for taking passengers between 20 and 40 hours logged. Now under Basic Med, a Private Pilot with 40 hours can carry passengers without a medical.