Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

On September 1, 2004 the FAA inaugurated a new pilot certificate dubbed the "sport pilot" that makes learning to fly easier and more affordable that ever. Intended primarily for recreational use, you can now become a pilot with as little as 20 hours of flight instruction! In addition, the FAA also created a new category of affordable "light-sport aircraft"!

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3Dreaming
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:56 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
Weeds, I don't think so.
I have only been speaking about solo flight. Of course no medical is required for the student to receive flight instruction.

An LSA is just an airplane, just like any other airplane. The fact that it is a LSA doesn't automatically change regulations or pilot privileges. The only time a LSA has any significance over any other airplane is when limitations on the pilot are changed limiting them to only being able to fly a LSA. It is this pilot limitation that determines whether a medical is required.

A student pilot is not required to fly a LSA. They can choose to fly a LSA, but that doesn't automatically change the medical requirements. The medical requirements change when they choose to follow the sport pilot limitations, one of which is the requirement that they must only fly a LSA. They must also follow all the other sport pilot limitations.

Well, actually it does. Most LSA are not IFR certified so an Instrument rated pilot cannot fly IFR in an LSA even though he is licensed and current to fly IFR. That is an aircraft specific restriction. Some LSA are not certified for night flight. Some non-LSA are not certified for instrument and/or night flight. So, the aircraft does, at times, automatically change regulations or pilot privileges.

Point being, it is the totality of the pilot's certification, currency, and medical status as well as the aircraft certification and currency, etc. that establishes what can and cannot be done for the flight in question.


So what regulations or pilot privileges were changed because the airplane was a LSA compared to any other airplane that is not IFR certified or equipped to fly at night?

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:58 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:Well, actually it does. Most LSA are not IFR certified so an Instrument rated pilot cannot fly IFR in an LSA even though he is licensed and current to fly IFR. That is an aircraft specific restriction. Some LSA are not certified for night flight. Some non-LSA are not certified for instrument and/or night flight. So, the aircraft does, at times, automatically change regulations or pilot privileges.

Point being, it is the totality of the pilot's certification, currency, and medical status as well as the aircraft certification and currency, etc. that establishes what can and cannot be done for the flight in question.


So what regulations or pilot privileges were changed because the airplane was a LSA compared to any other airplane that is not IFR certified or equipped to fly at night?

None that I know of. I suppose he can't carry 3 passengers. Is that a privilege?
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:04 pm

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby FastEddieB » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:18 pm

I was about to jump in to see if this thread could make it to 100 posts.

Too late! :shock:
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:22 pm

drseti wrote:There is no difference in student pilot certificates for sport vs. Pvt pilots. The only difference is the requirement that a current FAA medical is required to solo anything other than an LSA.

Apologies to the OP for everything posted beyond this.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:43 pm



To funny! I suppose it is time to draft my letter the FAA.

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby drseti » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:35 pm

3Dreaming wrote: I suppose it is time to draft my letter the FAA.


Think long and hard before doing so, Tom. Seriously contemplate the Law of Unintended Consequences
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:15 pm

drseti wrote:
3Dreaming wrote: I suppose it is time to draft my letter the FAA.


Think long and hard before doing so, Tom. Seriously contemplate the Law of Unintended Consequences


I have.

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:58 pm

At the risk or reopening this can of worms, perhaps the FAA did not anticipate students getting a Private in an LSA. Maybe they thought a student gets a Sport Pilot certificate in an LSA with a driver's license or a student gets a Private Pilot certificate in a non-LSA with a 3rd class medical. Therefore, the inconsistency was never addressed. Perhaps?

And by the same token, perhaps they never addressed legal PIC's acting as safety pilot in an LSA with a driver's license.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:40 am

TimTaylor wrote:At the risk or reopening this can of worms, perhaps the FAA did not anticipate students getting a Private in an LSA. Maybe they thought a student gets a Sport Pilot certificate in an LSA with a driver's license or a student gets a Private Pilot certificate in a non-LSA with a 3rd class medical. Therefore, the inconsistency was never addressed. Perhaps?

And by the same token, perhaps they never addressed legal PIC's acting as safety pilot in an LSA with a driver's license.


The medical certificate that a pilot is required to hold has always been based on the privileges they are exercising, not the airplane they are flying. It was that way 38 years ago when I learned to fly, and it is still that way now. If you choose to fly a airplane with a drivers license in lieu of a medical you must fly a LSA. Choosing to fly a LSA doesn't automatically change your medical requirements allowing you to use a drivers license, unless you are willing to accept the pilot limitations that go along with it.

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:06 am

3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:At the risk or reopening this can of worms, perhaps the FAA did not anticipate students getting a Private in an LSA. Maybe they thought a student gets a Sport Pilot certificate in an LSA with a driver's license or a student gets a Private Pilot certificate in a non-LSA with a 3rd class medical. Therefore, the inconsistency was never addressed. Perhaps?

And by the same token, perhaps they never addressed legal PIC's acting as safety pilot in an LSA with a driver's license.


The medical certificate that a pilot is required to hold has always been based on the privileges they are exercising, not the airplane they are flying. It was that way 38 years ago when I learned to fly, and it is still that way now. If you choose to fly a airplane with a drivers license in lieu of a medical you must fly a LSA. Choosing to fly a LSA doesn't automatically change your medical requirements allowing you to use a drivers license, unless you are willing to accept the pilot limitations that go along with it.

Thank you Captain Obvious. Maybe I should remind you there was never a provision to fly any airplane with a driver's license until the advent of Sport Pilot and LSA. You keep making the nonsensical argument that it has nothing to do with LSA. It has everything to do with LSA because there is no other aircraft which can be operated with just a driver's license. And yes, WE ALL KNOW, you must operate with Sport Pilot privileges when flying an LSA with a driver's license. Without LSA, there would be no Sport Pilot. Without Sport Pilot AND LSA, there would be no driver's license medical. A Sport Pilot certificate without LSA is useless. The Sport Pilot certificate would not exist without LSA and flying with a driver's license would not exist without Sport Pilot AND LSA.
Last edited by TimTaylor on Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:34 am

TimTaylor wrote:At the risk or reopening this can of worms, perhaps the FAA did not anticipate students getting a Private in an LSA. Maybe they thought a student gets a Sport Pilot certificate in an LSA with a driver's license or a student gets a Private Pilot certificate in a non-LSA with a 3rd class medical. Therefore, the inconsistency was never addressed. Perhaps?

And by the same token, perhaps they never addressed legal PIC's acting as safety pilot in an LSA with a driver's license.


I'll post this again due to the previous distraction.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:12 pm

TimTaylor wrote:Thank you Captain Obvious. Maybe I should remind you there was never a provision to fly any airplane with a driver's license until the advent of Sport Pilot and LSA. You keep making the nonsensical argument that it has nothing to do with LSA. It has everything to do with LSA because there is no other aircraft which can be operated with just a driver's license. And yes, WE ALL KNOW, you must operate with Sport Pilot privileges when flying an LSA with a driver's license. Without LSA, there would be no Sport Pilot. Without Sport Pilot AND LSA, there would be no driver's license medical. A Sport Pilot certificate without LSA is useless. The Sport Pilot certificate would not exist without LSA and flying with a driver's license would not exist without Sport Pilot AND LSA.


Tim, you are trying to make the tail wag the dog. It just doesn't work that way. When I say the airplane doesn't matter I am speaking in broader terms than just sport pilot. I does matter to sport pilots, because it is a limitation on their pilot certificate. For pilots with any other pilot certificate it is just an airplane. If they choose to exercise private pilot privileges in the airplane they need a third class medical. If they choose to exercise commercial pilot privileges they need a second class medical. According to 61.23 if they choose to exercise student pilot privileges they need a medical. It is not until they decide to exercise sport pilot privileges that the airplane becomes important. The privilege drives the need for the medical, the airplane is a limitation of the sport pilot privilege.

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:06 pm

TDFlyer wrote:Or does he need to apply again for a sport pilot student certificate

Your student can use his student pilot certificate for Sport, Recreational, or Private because a student pilot certificate is not specific to one or the other. Thank God you did not ask about medical requirements.
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