Sport Pilot Talk

I keep seeing all these "apps" by buying the box for $800 and then no subscription.
I have a Garmin 696 installed in my CTSW. No weather as that is a subscription and I know what the weather is going to be by getting a wx briefing.

My question to you old dogs-should I just wait for Garmin to drop the price of their subscription for wx because of the competition?
Should I get one of the new trendy boxes that have wx on them for "free?"
Should I get an ipad or iphone so I can get the AOPA weather app for "free"

or, should I just lay down until the urge to do anything goes away?

In-flight wx service is quite a dynamic issue now, and rapid developments from box manufacturers, software developers and even the FAA's NextGen technology are going to keep it dynamic. Add in the unique nature of any pilot's own flying plans and it's hard to imagine that any generic buying advice applies to a large part of the pilot population.

A small group of us Jacksonville pilots were having just this discussion yesterday: With realistic flight legs of <3 hrs and Flight Watch/FSS access available enroute for most of the country, just how important is real-time 'in the cockpit' wx data? Really - just how important? For those of us who fly behind radar and/or stormscope equipment, and who supplement the wx brief before departure with enroute wx via sat-based systems (XM, etc.), the advice we're given is not to navigate too closely to dynamic wx cells anyway. Such 'in the cockpit, real-time' info can be useful in providing situational awareness when e.g. planning an IMC approach - but for VMC-flight, enroute decision making, is real-time cockpit wx info something other than another clever doodad the pilot can play with?

Lots to discuss on this topic: Let me offer just one idea on how a basic tablet system can be useful. With an iPad and Foreflight, I can download the latest 6 hr prog chart, the synoptic picture for the area I plan to transit, current TAF or Metar data I think useful, add those to the normal wx brief, and then access that very recent info in the air (with - literally - only a couple of 4-finger swipes on the iPad), allowing me to compare the near-term f'cast with the actual wx encountered enroute. If I'm seeing a deviation between the f'cast conditions - which themselves are only an hour or three old - and my actual conditions, that could be very useful in supplementing current FSS wx advisories and updates. And I'm not using any 'real-time' wx info.

Usually, when I hear folks exclaiming the benefits of the latest box providing real-time cockpit weather info, they are the same folks who don't work the existing wx info services well, both on the ground and while enroute. Just a thought...

_________________
Jack
RAF Florida State Liaison
Please visit www.theraf.org

Inflight wx aside, I find the iPad with a $100 annual chart subscription to be a Wonderful investment as an Electronic Flight Bag. Given that ADS-B isn't available over the whole country (and can't be accessed at low altitudes even if it is available), the newest gadget from Sporty's is a non-starter for me. And given the cost of XM (both hardware and subscription), it's value seems questionable. Free wx and almost-free VFR and IFR charts on the iPad suit me just fine!

Oh, and too many gadgets with too much info in the cockpit can actually diminish, rather than improve, safety. Eyes outside, gentlemen and women!

_________________
The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org

For us new pilots, what do you mean. Which system is "wonderful" on the iPaid? Does not compute.

Also,
I was hoping that with the Garmin 696 with a subscription is so expensive and all these new solutions that are nearly free in comparison that Garmen would lower their rates and having that on my Garmin would be best of all to keep down cockpit clutter. (there is no extra real estate inside my CTSW).
Isn't that the capitalism that our Kenyan President speaks of? Competition would force Garmin to lower their price now that they aren't the only game in town?

OK, let me clarify.

I have always been fundamentally opposed to the iPad's physical implementation (never liked closed boxes), underlying philosophy (decidedly anti-techie), and business model (total control over app developers' distribution and marketing). That said, it has become the defacto platform of choice for a reason. So, call me a reluctant adopter.

The wonderful part is not the platform, but the apps that have been written for it. With a virtually free download (Foreflight, WingX, or Jepp, your choice), and a $100/year subscription, you can have the whole country -- sectionals, low altitude enroute charts, J airway charts, and approach plates -- always current, in a 2 pound package. This replaces a stack of paper that eats up 10% of an LSA's payload, and costs a thousand bucks or more for dead trees and postage. What a huge improvement! And even the most expensive, top-of-the-line version of the hardware costs only $800. Plus, you can load it up with a couple of dozen free books from the FAA (FARs, A/FD, pilot handbook, weather handbook, instructor's handbook, many more...) and the full set of maintenance manuals, operators manuals, service bulletins, and illustrated parts catalogs for every airframe, propeller, engine, and piece of avionics you're ever likely to encounter.

I still don't like not being able to swap batteries or expand memory, but I'll settle.

Now, the reason the iPad is so inexpensive has to do with economies of scale. Garmin makes a great aviation GPS product line (I have one, and use it, and like it). But (competition notwithstanding), I don't expect them to ever approach iPad's price point. That's because there are (if memory serves) about 600,000 pilots, and maybe 100,000 aircraft, in the US. So, at best, Garmin can only hope to sell a few tens of thousands of aviation-specific units per year. Apple sells tens of millions of iPads, worldwide, each year. They have become ubiquitous, not just in aviation, but in just about every other human endeavor. So they have a 1,000:1 advantage over Garmin.

I still don't like not being able to swap batteries or expand memory...

As for limited panel space, I do understand -- that's certainly a problem in any LSA. If you have room in the panel for a GPS, then by all means take a look at the 696. It's great. But if you don't, put an iPad on a kneeboard and strap it on. With 10 hours of battery life, you don't even have to plug it in. And with all your charts on screen, you're actually saving quite a bit of cockpit space.

However, I still don't like not being able to swap batteries or expand memory...

_________________
The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org

U R very kind to share your professional opinion. I see that Apple is selling "refurbished" iPads for $400 give or take.
So if I got an iPad, how do I get all that other stuff? Do I just download it and it goes onto the iPad for free (my original question).

I looked at the Sporty thing and see what you mean; a one trick pony. iPad puts all your manuals in one place, all FAA books, etc.

So get the refub iPad and then download something? I'm new at this so sorry if I am catching up but there are probably other short-bus pilots here too.

That's a pretty good deal. My advice is to get an iPad 2 (not the iPad 1), with a minimum of 32 GBytes of RAM (the apps will run in 16 gigs, but just barely. I went with 64 gigs, because you can't plug in more memory, and I didn't want to run out). And be sure to get the 3G version -- even if you aren't going to buy a 3G contract from your cellphone provider -- because that's the only model with the internal GPS. Alternatively, you could get a wi-f only model, but then you'd have to spend $100 on an external GPS, and that's one more thing to carry around.



You create an account with the App Store, and download the free 30-day trial of either WingX or Foreflight (or both -- after you've tried them out, you can decide which one you prefer). After the trial expires, you'll have to go back to the App Store and shell out $100 or so for your annual chart subscription. Then, you can update your charts any time you have a wi-fi connection.



No problem. That's what we're here for.

_________________
The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org

Good discussion. It is clear that the ipad has changed things. You can't go to an aviation seminar without some discussion about aviation related apps. Since I have a 696, I'm considering a smaller footprint for my "kneeboard". Any thoughts?

_________________
Dave

Dave, I fly with the 696 plus the iPad. Overall impressions:
696 Pros: heads up while using
696 Cons: must figure out buttons and menus to access functions, tricky if you don't use it very often

iPad w/ForeFlght and more:
Pros: intuitive, complete, start your flight planning at home and get in the plane ready to go
Cons: heads down while using

I use them both for different things.
696: heads up gps and immediate functions (traffic, terrain, linked to auto pilot, etc.)
iPad/ForeFlight: more like a chart, reference, backup GPS, airspace check, etc.
and sooo easy to use, just drag your finger to plot your course.

Redundant GPS is great.
I wish the pane that I fly had more empty space on the panel to mount the iPad as well.

Flight panning on ForeFlight is amazing!
As is constant AWOS / TAF updates
... and flight plan filing while walking up the ramp (copy, copy, update times, send, DONE!)

Come on down to 39N... we'll do lunch.
You bring the plane, I'll bring the iPad!

_________________
Richard, Student Sport Pilot
Magazine Quality Photography and Imaging
http://www.agreatimage.com

Yorktown:

I think Paul answered most of your Q's. I would suggest you consider 'new' vs. buying a refurb'd unit, unless the refurb'd unit's screen and battery are new. Like any other electronic battery powered device, you have the ability to 'manage' the battery's health (as well as the power draw when using it) and this means a new battery will probably last as long as your use of the device.

One 'adjustment' to Paul's advice that I would offer: Consider what aircraft you will be likely to fly in before deciding on the 3G (or if you go with the newest iPad, 4G) model vs. the non-cellular model. You will likely be using your iPad on your lap in some fashion; it's form factor is simply too large for most folks to find a mounting position for it on the panel or adjacent area without hiding instruments or the view outside the a/c. If you will be flying an a/c with tube & fabric construction in the cockpit area or with a bubble or mixed bubble & composite canopy overhead, the 3/4G GPS seems to work very reliably. If you'll be flying in something that surrounds part of the cockpit area (and especially overhead area) in aluminum, the internal GPS antenna will struggle and you will prefer paying less for a wifi-only iPad and then purchasing a small, wireless GPS puck that can be placed on the glareshield in front of the panel. It is likely to have a better view of the sats and give you more reliable position info than the iPad sitting on your lap. And there's no cable.

So far, the best solution I've found for 'mounting' an iPad in our cockpit is the inexpensive MyClip ( http://tietco.com/board.php ). There remain drawbacks to this approach, the main one for me being that I want to write some things down (fuel tank switch times, some enroute clearance info, some enroute wx info) for which Foreflight's scratchpad is simply not large enough. (And I'm not interested in 'saving' and then having to go find 'scratchpad' detail when I should be flying the a/c). The advantages of the MyClip solution, insofar as I'm concerned, are:
-- if flying with a partner you will sometimes want to let them view the chart...or use it in some other fashion, e.g. read an ibook while enroute. Unclipping/reclipping the iPad from/to MyClip is dead simple and can be done one-handed without looking
-- I like that it will accept the iPad with or without its protective cover (folded behind the iPad)
-- I like that the iPad can easily be shifted between the horizontal and vertical orientation (provided your stick/yoke permits).
-- it's cheap, simple to put on/take off inflight, and there's nothing to break - it's a true KISS tool.
-- I personally don't find it viable to use an iPad in my lap without having it 'fixed in place' in some fashion. This is just one way to do that.

_________________
Jack
RAF Florida State Liaison
Please visit www.theraf.org

Jack is entirely correct, as usual. The internal GPS works well in most of the low-wing LSAs, as these tend to have bubble canopies that are very RF-transparent. Some of the high-wingers (especially the composites) do OK as well, but an all-metal high wing aircraft will probably tend to favor the bluetooth external GPS stuck on the glareshield. Just remember that you have to charge its battery before flight!

_________________
The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org