Sport Pilot Talk

Hi Dave,

Plenty of baggage room on both sides and up to 55 lbs each side. Give me a call if you have any questions. I have seen some carry full size bikes, golf clubs, full camp ground gear. Like I said you can't really get it out of CG if you put weight where it was designed to be.

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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maint. Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint Rated
(520) 574-1080 (Home) Try Home First.
(520) 349-7056 (Cell)

One interesting thing about the Sport Cruiser is the actual gross weight of the airplane (from the designer, not the FAA/ASTM) is 1716 pounds! So you can overgross on paper, but probably not in reality. Also, the SC uses 6016 aluminium like the Bristell. BL uses carbon fiber in the seats for support vs. SC plywood (soon to change to composite). I spent time with 2 of the head guys at Czech Sport Aircraft and they are very interested and invested in raising the official useful load of the SC. I personally think the FAA is forcing too much compromising by LSA co's with 1320. Why not 1500lb? Or allow all safety items to be not counted in the Gr Wt.

The Sport Cruiser, CTLS and Evektor (I think) have all just become 'fully certified' aircraft in Europe, which I believe, will let them fly at actual design gross wt. and be used for commercial ops etc. Maybe that will help us in the US get the Gr Wt raised.

Very interesting me as a PiperSport owner. I've never seen these numbers before. I would love to see the source material.

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Dave

I'd love to see more info on this too!
As well as European spec SportCruiser gross max, etc.

Like the previous two posters I'd like to see some documentation on this also.

It is common and documented that others like the Jabiru, Paradise and Lightning were all based on airframes with higher gross weights.

However don't be caught in an accident flying over legal gross. Not only will the FAA nail you but worse insurance won't pay. The other thing to keep in mind your stall speeds and climb rate will change. Also consider the published load factors were for 1320#'s.

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Marcus - WA2DCI
PP ASEL IA

Daidalos Greek: Δαίδαλος
Remember don't fly too close to the Sun.

And I'd like to see some documentation of insurance not paying when someone broke a regulation.

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KSCessnaDriver (ATP MEL, Commerical LTA-Airship/SEL, Private SES, CFI/CFII)
LSA's flown: Remos G3, Flight Design CTSW, Aeronca L-16, Jabiru J170

I can't site an actual case. I based my statement on my personal and business experience with insurance company claims in general. I did a quick Internet search and found quite a but on denial of aviation claims. They all have a common theme.

The FAA has a huge number of rules, which govern the certification, maintenance, and operation of aircraft. Because a great portion of these regulations are safety-oriented, aviation insurance policies have come to incorporate one or more provisions that exclude coverage if the aircraft is being operated in viola tion of FARs. 

BTW I never said that I have never flown over gross , just understand the risk! I don't want anyone reading this thread to think it's acceptable.

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Marcus - WA2DCI
PP ASEL IA

Daidalos Greek: Δαίδαλος
Remember don't fly too close to the Sun.

It doesn't even have to be about the FARs. My insurance policies have always specified that they provide coverage only if the aircraft is operated in accordance with the limitations in its airworthiness certificate. If the AC was issued with a particular maximum gross weight in mind, I think that clause gives the insurance carrier grounds for invalidating the policy, should max gross weight be exceeded.

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The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org

Very valid point if someone were to look at the specs on paper it might be very difficult to see the whole picture of the performance envelope looking at just one spec such as Gross Weight. Some of the manufactures have to work quite hard to achieve the required LSA low stall speed at LSA legal gross.

Maybe the FAA knows this, and realizes gross weight needs to be quite low to achieve the low LSA stall speed?

Good point. The SportStar was originally submitted as an LSA with a gross weight of 1260 lbs. The existing airframe could handle the 1320 GW but stall speed was not within LSA limts at that weight.

The new Sportstars added the vortex generators on the leading edge meet the sstall pecs at 1320 lbs.

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Marcus - WA2DCI
PP ASEL IA

Daidalos Greek: Δαίδαλος
Remember don't fly too close to the Sun.

Everybody keeps asking "Why is the gross so low? Want can't we have a little more weight?"

Maybe the question becomes, "How much gross weight can you have and still maintain the LSA required maximum stall speed?"

OR

Maybe the hypothetical regulation should be, "You can have up to say 1650# gross BUT you must be in compliance with the LSA max stall speed."

Thoughts?

And Evektor provided both a Service Bulletin and a parts kit to install those VGs on earlier SportStars. I did that with my SportStar Plus to turn it into a SportStar Max, increasing max gross from 1268 to 1320. My actual stall speeds at full LSA max gross are now 38 kts clean, 37 kts dirty!

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The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org

Paul did you install the rudder SB? My right foot often slipped on to the left copilot pedal. They came up with a barrier for that. The nose wheel sensitivity was also a problem.

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Marcus - WA2DCI
PP ASEL IA

Daidalos Greek: Δαίδαλος
Remember don't fly too close to the Sun.

There's a safety reason for keeping the max gross weight low. Kinetic energy (which must be dissipated in the event of an accident) varies directly with mass, and with the square of velocity. Keeping the plane both light and slow significantly limits kinetic energy, which minimizes the likelihood of injury in the event of an accident. Increasing gross (even if stall speed remains constant) will inevitably increase the fatality rate.

Here are some figures I derived, comparing my Evektor SportStar to a Beech G-36 Bonanza:

-------------------------------SportStar------------------Bonanza----Units
Max gross wt------------------600-----------------------1656---------kg
Vso-------------------------------19--------------------------30---------m/s
KE-------------------------------217-----------------------1790---------kJ

So, you see that, at max gross weight and full-flap stall speed, a landing accident in the Bonanza involves 6.9 times as much kinetic energy as one in the SportStar. That means a landing accident that would subject the LSA pilot to 5 G (probably non-injury) would subject the Bonanza pilot to 34.5 Gs (possibly fatal).

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The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org

Not yet, Marcus. I have the parts kit, but haven't been able to take the aircraft out of service long enough to install the new rudder pedals and the barrier. So, I just warn my students and renters about how easy it is to overlap.



The problem with the mod to reduce the steering sensitivity is that it significantly increases turning radius, making it more difficult to taxi safely around other aircraft on a crowded ramp. I opted not to do that one, instead training my pilots not to over-control on the ground. Steady, gentle rudder pressure makes taxiing safe.

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The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org