Sport Pilot Talk

I know the RP rating is all but dead due to Sport Pilot being considered a more attractive alternative, but I have questions about some of he drawbacks attributed to that rating. Specifically, I am referring to the 50 mile limitation on how far you can travel from home airport with that rating. Somewhere, I read that you can expand or eliminate that limitation via a logbook endorsement? Can anyone shed light on this? Does it have other limitations not shared by the SP rating (other than the 3d class medical)?

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Tecnam Flyer

That's true... all it takes is a logbook endorsement from an instructor and that limit is removed. (14 CFR 61.101)

You can fly a plane with up to 4 seats in it, but you can't fly more than one passenger (single engine, 180hp max, etc)

Another odd-ball limit is that you can't fly past sunset, or before sunrise (where with sport pilot, you can).

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- Bob
COMM, CFI, DPE, Light Sport Repairman/Maintenance
http://www.sportpilotinstructor.com

What about number of hours required instruction?

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Tecnam Flyer

you will find all those gory details in subpart D of Part 61

30 hours flight time, including..
15 hours flight instruction,
2 hours "cross country" type training
3 hours solo
(and a few more things).

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- Bob
COMM, CFI, DPE, Light Sport Repairman/Maintenance
http://www.sportpilotinstructor.com

There is really no point at all. It still requires a medical certificate, and if you can get medical, you can get Private.

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http://zaitcev.mee.nu/

Maybe, yet with more schools and LSA rentals getting the insurance jitters about renting to PICs without medicals, RP starts to look more attractive. Cheaper, more available instruction , cheaper, more availble planes of wider variety, no requirement to train for night flight, 30 hours vs 20 (how many SPs actually get their SLSA checkride in 20)? The distinction between SP and RP begins to blur, SP attractiveness dwindles. The only remaining advantage for the SP rating is the lack of a medical requirement. Maybe a biggie, maybe not. Might warrent further consideration for some of us.

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Tecnam Flyer

The stats are probably the same as asking "how many rec pilots get their checkride in 30?", or "how many privates do it in 40?"

One of the problem with Rec when it came out, was that the requirements were pretty darned close to private (assuming you get the airspace endorsement, and cross country endorsement with Rec). I tend to agree that it might be more worthwhile, just going right to private. You'll end up with a lot less restrictions, which may or may not be of importance to you now (but might be in the future)

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- Bob
COMM, CFI, DPE, Light Sport Repairman/Maintenance
http://www.sportpilotinstructor.com

I dont think sport pilot will allow for night flight I may have my info wrong but I do not think this is the case. AOPA and EAA are putting a change in front of FAA for a exemption to the private pilot rule that will allow sport pilot rule in a 4 place airplane under 180 hp, fixed gear, and no more than one passenger. VFR Day only. I think you will have to start with a private pilot license and limit the usage to the sport pilot rule but no 3rd class medical. If they can get this done I think it would be best to get a private rating and use it for recreational flying so you have more airplanes to choose from. But if you want to fly at night you will need the 3rd class medical.

I think Bob's point was that SP adheres to normal night definition that include 1 hour grace period on both sides of the night, the same as applies to every other regulation. But RP is different: just sunrise to sunset. Ergo, oddball.

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http://zaitcev.mee.nu/

ediolon45:

It doesn't take a reading of many threads on this forum - or elsewhere - to find lots of examples why your question - about the RP license - is a valid one. The introduction of LSA a/c has been throttled back substantially by a set of interrelated factors, the GFC of 2008 and the very slow, subsequent economic recovery being the main but not only factor. In large metropolitan areas, finding a rental LSA might not be difficult, altho' the population density may make renting it somewhat spontaneously or at a time of your choosing may prove difficult. But in many parts of our country, rental LSA's are simply not conveniently available. This in turn reduces the incentive some potential SP students would feel to begin training, and so we have a closed loop of LSA/SP stagnation that lies beyond the economy itself. And let's not overlook the very modest number of SP licenses that have been issued since 2005, including an underwhelming number before the GFC unfolded.

Offsetting this is that most flight schools are already prepared to teach to the RP license. Sure, they'd have to blow dust off the curriculum...but they don't need to buy an LSA a/c to do so, and the a/c that is used for RP training is no doubt available to rent - or one comparable to it likely is available - because a/c rentals are a key component of the flight school/FBO business model. Finally, those RP training hours will be applicable to the PPL, if during the training you find you want to stretch to the license with more privileges. That may be true when doing SP training...but it may not, depending on local circumstances.

When one looks at how most pilots fly - which is a) infrequently, and b) in day VFR with perhaps one passenger - the RP privileges don't strike me as widely impractical. It's main negative, from what I've seen, is that it simply didn't reduce the cost and effort to become licensed sufficiently to satisfy what pent-up demand might exist. In fact, given the weak reception of the SP license so far, I'm wondering if the 'pent up demand' is mostly hyperbole and wishful thinking. That's why, despite its benefits, I think the EAA/AOPA 'driver's license medical' proposal for 'recreational flying' is more of a holding action (IOW trying to hold onto an aging pilot population) rather than creating a fresh new supply of students not previously tapped. It simply makes it easier for existing pilots to continue to fly.

Just which license to pursue - SP, RP or PP - has a lot more to do with one's flying plans and local circumstances than with the hours required, IMO.

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Jack
RAF Florida State Liaison
Please visit www.theraf.org

That is true. You can't fly at night with a Sport Pilot certificate. But "night" happens well after "sunset" (and ends well before sunrise. The actual definition (from 14 CFR 1.1) is that night begins after civil twilight, and civil twilight happens after sunset (and of course, before sunrise).

Sport Pilot rules (14 CFR 61.313(b)(5)) says that a sport pilot can not fly "at night".

Recreational Pilot rules (14 CFR 61.101(e)(6)) says that a recreational pilot can not fly "Between sunset and sunrise".

Normally, the FAA gives more prvileges to people holding "higher" certificates, but this is one case where they gave Sport Pilots a little more privilege than Recreational pilots, by allowing them to fly during the period of civil twilight (approximately 25-40 minutes after sunset, and before sunrise), as long as the plane is equipped with position lights.

Now, is that a show stopper, if choosing between SP and Rec? Not at all. Its just one of those little quirks I pointed out when you asked about the limitation differences between Rec and SP.

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- Bob
COMM, CFI, DPE, Light Sport Repairman/Maintenance
http://www.sportpilotinstructor.com