Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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FastEddieB
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Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by FastEddieB »

I think I'm the only Sky Arrow owner who posts here, but in case any are lurking or aficionados...

My Operating Limitations placard was faded almost to the point of illegibility. I emailed Roberto Merico at Magnaghi about a replacement. He responded:

"Ciao Ed,

In few days we're releasing new Flight Manual with some new limitations (together with a SB).

The placard must be anyway re-done, we can supply you with the new one as soon as approved officially.

Thank you,

Best regards,

Roberto


I asked if it was OK to put that online, and he responded:

"Yes,

You'll find everything online @ tech page on our website
"


Anyway, first I had heard of an upcoming revision to the POH and limitations or an SB.

Just a head's up.
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
[email protected]
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dstclair
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by dstclair »

So what are the new operating limitations?
dave
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FastEddieB
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by FastEddieB »

dstclair wrote:So what are the new operating limitations?
Won’t know until they are released. Fingers crossed!
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
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MrMorden
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by MrMorden »

Eddie, as the owner of an E-LSA, the new operating limitations will not apply to your airplane anyway. Your operating limitations remain the same as issued during your E-LSA conversion process.

Might help (or hinder) some lurking S-LSA owners though. Though new limitations bundled with an SB does not sound like a positive development...
Andy Walker
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TimTaylor
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by TimTaylor »

MrMorden wrote:Eddie, as the owner of an E-LSA, the new operating limitations will not apply to your airplane anyway. Your operating limitations remain the same as issued during your E-LSA conversion process.

Might help (or hinder) some lurking S-LSA owners though. Though new limitations bundled with an SB does not sound like a positive development...
Is that correct? IDK. What if an aircraft manufacturer discovered some severe deficiency and issued a limitation such as "aircraft cannot be operated at more than 1100 pounds max gross weight"? Would an airplane that had been converted to ELSA be able to ignore that new limitation?
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FastEddieB
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by FastEddieB »

MrMorden wrote:Eddie, as the owner of an E-LSA, the new operating limitations will not apply to your airplane anyway. Your operating limitations remain the same as issued during your E-LSA conversion process.
I was actually pondering this a few hours ago.

This is a photo of a screenshot from the POH I printed out of the placard in question:

Image

I suppose, as an Experimental, I am free to determine my own Vne, for instance, or any other limitation other than those which would take the plane out of the Light Sport Limitations. And worth mentioning that Vne is not mentioned in my Experimental Operating Limitations, nor are most or all of the Limitations on the placard.

But in any case I certainly would want to know what Limitation(s) the manufacturer may have deemed to change. For what I think are obvious reasons.
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
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CharlieTango
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by CharlieTango »

TimTaylor wrote:
MrMorden wrote:Eddie, as the owner of an E-LSA, the new operating limitations will not apply to your airplane anyway. Your operating limitations remain the same as issued during your E-LSA conversion process.

Might help (or hinder) some lurking S-LSA owners though. Though new limitations bundled with an SB does not sound like a positive development...
Is that correct? IDK. What if an aircraft manufacturer discovered some severe deficiency and issued a limitation such as "aircraft cannot be operated at more than 1100 pounds max gross weight"? Would an airplane that had been converted to ELSA be able to ignore that new limitation?
'be able to ignore' dumb to do but even the SLSA owners could ignore. the converted plane is subject only to its limitations.

such a change would be public knowledge and the experimental owners can still use the info and act accordingly
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by TimTaylor »

What are you saying? An ELSA owner can legally ignore new limitations or not?
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MrMorden
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by MrMorden »

TimTaylor wrote:What are you saying? An ELSA owner can legally ignore new limitations or not?
An E-LSA, whether originally manufactured that way or converted from an S-LSA, is only bound by LSA definitions and its operating limitations. New operating limitations are issued at the time of a conversion, and the manufacturer’s limitations are no longer in effect. The manufacturer no longer has any authority to mandate any maintenance, procedure, or limitations on the airframe. I’m pretty sure the FAA can still issue ADs on E-LSA, as they did for the Zodiac 601XL on an emergency basis a few years ago.

I am not suggesting that an E-LSA owner ignore SBs or other guidance from the manufacturer; I’m just pointing out such guidance is not binding on an E-LSA and there could be a situation where an owner felt the need to go against such recommendations.
Andy Walker
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MrMorden
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by MrMorden »

CharlieTango wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:
MrMorden wrote:Eddie, as the owner of an E-LSA, the new operating limitations will not apply to your airplane anyway. Your operating limitations remain the same as issued during your E-LSA conversion process.

Might help (or hinder) some lurking S-LSA owners though. Though new limitations bundled with an SB does not sound like a positive development...
Is that correct? IDK. What if an aircraft manufacturer discovered some severe deficiency and issued a limitation such as "aircraft cannot be operated at more than 1100 pounds max gross weight"? Would an airplane that had been converted to ELSA be able to ignore that new limitation?
'be able to ignore' dumb to do but even the SLSA owners could ignore. the converted plane is subject only to its limitations.

such a change would be public knowledge and the experimental owners can still use the info and act accordingly
A Service Directive issued by the manufacturer is required on an S-LSA, service bulletins are not.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
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drseti
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by drseti »

MrMorden wrote:
A Service Directive issued by the manufacturer is required on an S-LSA, service bulletins are not.
The term used in the applicable FAR is Safety Directive. That has the same force of law as an AD would for certified aircraft.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
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MrMorden
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by MrMorden »

drseti wrote:
MrMorden wrote:
A Service Directive issued by the manufacturer is required on an S-LSA, service bulletins are not.
The term used in the applicable FAR is Safety Directive. That has the same force of law as an AD would for certified aircraft.
Thanks for the terminology correction.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
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Warmi
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by Warmi »

drseti wrote:
MrMorden wrote:
A Service Directive issued by the manufacturer is required on an S-LSA, service bulletins are not.
The term used in the applicable FAR is Safety Directive. That has the same force of law as an AD would for certified aircraft.
So this Service Bulletin http://www.sting.aero/owners/notices/TL ... 202015.pdf is basically advisory and does not require compliance’s to keep the plane airworthy.
Am I reading it right ?
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois
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drseti
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by drseti »

Well, since the Service Bulletin doesn't specifically say Safety Directive, it doesn't have the same force of law as an AD.

However, I see at the top of the document the words "Notice of Continued Airworthiness." Any Maintenance requirements specifically mentioned in the Continued Airworthiness section of an approved Flight Manual are regulatory. So, even though the SB isn't mandatory, if the manufacturer incorporates it into the Continued Airworthiness section of the AOI, it then becomes a requirement.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
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Warmi
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Post by Warmi »

Makes sense.
And , as always , thanks for your help and expertise.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois
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