Instrument Trainining

Sport aviation is growing rapidly. But the new sport pilot / light-sport aircraft rules are still a mystery to many flight schools and instructors. To locate a flight school offering sport pilot training and/or light-sport aircraft rentals, click on the "Flight School And Rental Finder" tab above. This is a great place to share ideas on learning to fly, flight schools, costs and anything else related to training.

Moderator: drseti

User avatar
foresterpoole
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:28 pm
Location: Alexandria, LA

Instrument Trainining

Post by foresterpoole »

Did full hour under the hood yesterday after a few touch and goes at a sleepy class D (AEX). My instrument experience was very limited training for sport. I'd have to say I think sport should have covered a bit more of it in my opinion. After some standard climb, descent, and turns we did unusual attitudes/recovery and some spatial disorientation (he tossed the plane around for 2-3 minutes at a time then handed the controls over). I'd have to say that was the craziest feeling I've had in a plane yet. I'm sure most of you will laugh, but man it felt like we were doing loops! It was so easy to get a vertical 100' oscillation going and very hard to smooth it out. He fed me vectors back to the airport and we tried an simulated instrument approach which did not turn out as planned, I came in about 200 yards to the left of center when he told me to take the hood off and look. Hat is off the the instrument rated guys!
Ed
User avatar
Jim Hardin
Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:33 pm

Re: Instrument Trainining

Post by Jim Hardin »

Sounds like you enjoyed it!

Correction!Of course there is NO requirement for instrument training in a Sport Pilot certificate and personally I do not do any nor do any of the other instructors why I fly. This is NOT correct as Paul pointed out later on in this thread. Reference FAR 61.93(e)12)

But you are right about the the rewards of instrument flying. Just nothing like the feeling of keeping the needles centered on the approach and breaking out at 200 feet with the runway right where it should be :D
Last edited by Jim Hardin on Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
rcpilot
Posts: 356
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:32 pm
Location: Mastic, NY

Re: Instrument Trainining

Post by rcpilot »

Jim Hardin wrote:Sounds like you enjoyed it!

Of course there is NO requirement for instrument training in a Sport Pilot certificate and personally I do not do any nor do any of the other instructors why I fly.

But you are right about the the rewards of instrument flying. Just nothing like the feeling of keeping the needles centered on the approach and breaking out at 200 feet with the runway right where it should be :D
Well, actually there is. And it bit me on the butt when I went for my check ride. The rule is if your plane has a Vh>87 knots you must have instrument training and that must occur before your x-country. From previous posts here I had discussed this with my instructor but apparently it's a poorly understood requirement and we didn't do what was needed. The DPE pointed it out to me, told me just have my instructor give me like 20 minutes instrument time in any airplane and then we could reschedule. We flew in the school's Skycatcher which has an EFIS. He signed me off and I got my check ride.
rsteele
Posts: 354
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:40 pm

Re: Instrument Trainining

Post by rsteele »

The requirement for instrument training was added a few years after the SP rule took effect. I never had nor needed any for my check ride.

Ron
User avatar
joey4420
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:25 am
Location: Cincinnati Ohio

Re: Instrument Trainining

Post by joey4420 »

Where is the stated requirement for hood time? I just completed my Sport Certificate and it was not required for me, at least I didn't do it, nor did the DPE ask about it.
Joey
Cincinnati OH
Sport Pilot
Double Eagle N35DE
User avatar
drseti
Posts: 7227
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Instrument Trainining

Post by drseti »

That's because it's not in FAR 61 Subpart J where you'd expect it to be (and where all the other Sport Pilot training requirements are). It was added to the section of Part 61 Subpart C dealing with student pilot XC training requirements (not SP specific) and applies to any aircraft with a Vh>87 KIAS, whether LSA or not. We had a long thread about this here a couple of years ago - maybe someone can find it with the site search engine and post the link on this thread?
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
User avatar
drseti
Posts: 7227
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Instrument Trainining

Post by drseti »

Found the reg: 61.93 (e)(12). Most CFIs don't know about this. It was NOT covered in my most recent Flight Instructor Renewel course two weeks ago
:(
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
User avatar
joey4420
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:25 am
Location: Cincinnati Ohio

Re: Instrument Trainining

Post by joey4420 »

Wow, I guess I need to go get with a CFI and get that done just to be on the safe side.
Joey
Cincinnati OH
Sport Pilot
Double Eagle N35DE
TimTaylor
Posts: 1594
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: Instrument Trainining

Post by TimTaylor »

Personally, I don't think anyone should leave the pattern solo without instrument training.
Retired from flying.
3Dreaming
Posts: 3107
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Instrument Trainining

Post by 3Dreaming »

There has been more than one student sent home by a DPE for not having the endorsement. Any solo crosscountry time for a sport pilot student is invalid without the endorsement. There is also a requirement for the greater than or les than 87kt endorsement for sport student pilots.
User avatar
Jim Hardin
Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:33 pm

Re: Instrument Trainining

Post by Jim Hardin »

drseti wrote:Found the reg: 61.93 (e)(12). Most CFIs don't know about this. It was NOT covered in my most recent Flight Instructor Renewel course two weeks ago
:(
Thanks for that Paul! I have corrected my post as well as my training :D
User avatar
foresterpoole
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:28 pm
Location: Alexandria, LA

Re: Instrument Trainining

Post by foresterpoole »

Well, I've got another few hours under the hood to go, Friday I'm looking at two hours night (flew 2 night hours last week). However the weather looks marginal VFR, I may be crazy, but I think it would be a great exercise to actually fly night IFR/IMC (with a CFII) for both night and instrument hours. Has anyone had the opportunity to train like this, or has been the instructor in this type of situation? I guess it would require an IFR flight plan to be filed, another learning opportunity, but what is the legality or more appropriately the legality of me training under his IFR filed flight???
Ed
User avatar
drseti
Posts: 7227
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Instrument Trainining

Post by drseti »

Ed, I've always made a point of taking my instrument students into actual IMC toward the end of their training, to give them a chance to work the system for real. But, I would be hesitant to do so with primary students, because in actual, their actions can negatively impact other airspace users (and, let's face it, in order to learn from one's mustakes, one has to be allowed to make them).
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
User avatar
drseti
Posts: 7227
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Instrument Trainining

Post by drseti »

As for the legality of training in actual IFR, it depends on the aircraft. In a certified aircraft properly IFR equipped, with all required inspections current, I wouldn't hesitate unless low IMC prevailed. But, my primary trainer is an SLSA. Although much better equipped than just about any IFR certified aircraft I've ever flown, ASTM rules prevent one from legally filing an IFR flight plan or taking it into actual IMC.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
3Dreaming
Posts: 3107
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Instrument Trainining

Post by 3Dreaming »

drseti wrote:As for the legality of training in actual IFR, it depends on the aircraft. In a certified aircraft properly IFR equipped, with all required inspections current, I wouldn't hesitate unless low IMC prevailed. But, my primary trainer is an SLSA. Although much better equipped than just about any IFR certified aircraft I've ever flown, ASTM rules prevent one from legally filing an IFR flight plan or taking it into actual IMC.
Paul, would you please provide the source that prevents a SLSA from legally filing a IFR flight plan? I was under the opinion that it was only flight in IMC that was prohibited.
Post Reply