Cost of ownership

Are you building/buying/flying an Experimental Amateur-Built (E-AB) or Experimental Light Sport (E-LSA) aircraft? Converting an S-LSA to E-LSA? Changing or adding equipment, or otherwise modifying an S-LSA? Need help with Letters of Authorization? Or maybe designing your own aircraft? This forum is the place to discuss All Things Experimental.

Moderator: drseti

User avatar
FastEddieB
Posts: 2511
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby FastEddieB » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:39 pm

Wow!

All that for under $180,000.00!

I may have close to that much in my sofa cushions!
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
FastEddieB@mac.com

FlyingForFun
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:41 pm

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby FlyingForFun » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:49 pm

Delete
Last edited by FlyingForFun on Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore767
Posts: 899
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby Nomore767 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:52 pm

"Along with the half cost per gallon cheaper fuel, the 3.5gph at 120kts cruise burn rate, and the ability to land in less than 500 feet. Your De Havilland is an antiquated monster that costs more to fly in half an hour than mine does for a full tank of 1200 mi range gas flying all day."

Actually, it burned about 8 gph and landed on grass in about 200 feet.

The airplane served in the RAF and trained wartime pilots. I met one once who had this particular airplane noted in his logbook shortly after it was delivered. He learned to fly on this type went on to fly Spitfires. The specs are very similar to todays LSA in terms of size though a bit heavier.

It's not mine anymore by the way, it was sold to a guy in Germany who flew over to the States just to buy it.

You have to give credit to the Europeans, they do make GREAT planes!

Nomore767
Posts: 899
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby Nomore767 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:58 pm

"The parachute lowers insurance premiums and total cost of ownership."

But...but..with all that technology, redundancy and state of the art features..why aren't the insurance premiums at rock bottom already?

I mean...what could go wrong?

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby MrMorden » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:35 pm

Nomore767 wrote:"Along with the half cost per gallon cheaper fuel, the 3.5gph at 120kts cruise burn rate, and the ability to land in less than 500 feet. Your De Havilland is an antiquated monster that costs more to fly in half an hour than mine does for a full tank of 1200 mi range gas flying all day."

Actually, it burned about 8 gph and landed on grass in about 200 feet.

The airplane served in the RAF and trained wartime pilots. I met one once who had this particular airplane noted in his logbook shortly after it was delivered. He learned to fly on this type went on to fly Spitfires. The specs are very similar to todays LSA in terms of size though a bit heavier.

It's not mine anymore by the way, it was sold to a guy in Germany who flew over to the States just to buy it.

You have to give credit to the Europeans, they do make GREAT planes!


Give us a break, we all know that the Spitfire is an ancient relic, and that the CTLSi would be able to do the exact same job twice as fast on half the fuel burn...get with modern times already. :wink:
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

Nomore767
Posts: 899
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby Nomore767 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:52 pm

Give us a break, we all know that the Spitfire is an ancient relic, and that the CTLSi would be able to do the exact same job twice as fast on half the fuel burn...get with modern times already.

Sorry, I'll try to do better! :D

Speaking of fuel...the Tiger Moth had a float inside a glass sight gauge on the fuel tank between the top wings. One day, just as I lifted off the glass shattered and I was lightly sprayed with fuel all the way around the pattern. Nice.
Now I had to find a replacement glass sight gauge for a 1940 aircraft. Amazingly, a restorer in CA had one in a box, unopened since it was packaged in 1943. Since I had bought parts from him before he shipped it to me for free! Pilots helping pilots, it's really cool.

Talking of cool, my father, in his late teens worked for Hawkers at their factory in Langley, Buckinghamshire, England. He installed the glycol tanks on the Hawker Hurricane production line. The last Hurricane made ("The Last of the Many") had all it's parts signed by those that worked on it, and so his name was in it. He later flew Wellington bombers in the RAF.

Sometimes ancient relics have interesting stories. My Tiger Moth was no longer required by the RAF and was sent to Croydon airport in Surrey UK to a firm called Rollasons who re-registered it and sold it to the Surrey Flying Club. This was 'sport aviation' in 1954. Grass field, Tiger Moth with tail skid. Switches on, swing the prop, point into wind...and go.

By the way, I've flown the CTLS, and it's a really nice airplane with lots of great features. One of the features that I liked best...it doesn't spray the pilot with fuel vey often! :mrgreen:

CTLSi
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:38 pm

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby CTLSi » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:58 pm

......
Last edited by CTLSi on Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 5916
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby drseti » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:13 pm

CTLSi wrote:why not jump into a Mitsubishi Zero or a Russian YAK-1 and really make a brown spot in your pants.


Sounds like fun to me! And, the fact that I enjoy flying antiques in no way diminishes the pleasure I find flying an LSA. This need not be a competition, ladies and gentlemen; there's room enough in GA for all types of flying.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby MrMorden » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:22 pm

CTLSi wrote:Heck, if you need to feel the vibration and fuel burn of the 40s. why not jump into a Mitsubishi Zero or a Russian YAK-1 and really make a brown spot in your pants.


Because I don't want to burn to death! ;) The Zero's lack of self-sealing fuel tanks is on of the reasons Japan burned through (pun intended) pilots faster than they could churn them out. It was an awesome performer though.

Few would argue that the P-51 was NOT the best fighter of the war...it was still used in Korea as well.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

3Dreaming
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:28 pm

I am a dealer for Flight Design, and own a CTLS, but I still very much enjoy old aircraft. In fact I also own an old Taylorcraft. IMO the pure joy of flying the old airplanes can not be replaced by the carbon fiber and electronic gizmos. The new airplanes have thier place, but so do the old ones.

3Dreaming
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:33 pm

CTLSi wrote:Fun to watch people run around the point on these threads.

Cars no longer have carburetors and can store and burn E10. They are fuel injected, have computerized ignitions and are reliable and do not 'stall'. Sure you can get yourself a 1955 chevy truck unrestored with an old flat head all iron engine and a single barrel carb on it, it will stall. It also wants leaded gas.

Phase Separation is not an issue unless you dump the water in yourself. I suppose someone will try that eventually.

My fuel costs half what 100LL costs and my fuel injected engine LOVES 91 E10. Its the future of GA aviation. Carbon fiber, fuel injection, solid state ignitions, digital cockpits and EMS, paperless cockpit, graphical weather in the cockpit, GPS, AOA indicators, collision avoidance and autopilots. And an all plane BRS parachute.

The promise of LSA is realized and all for under $180k.

But not for the kit builders, or the tinkerers, or the guys that still wanna fly with steam gauges, metal and rivets in the airframe, carbed engines, and leaded gas. The days of 1940s tech in GA has passed - the relics are piling up, and the guys that love to fly them are being left behind.


Maybe you havn't had a fuel injected vehicle stall and strand you , but I have.

Also having been around airplanes my whole life I do know that they do have problems with water in the fuel at a much higher rate than cars, especially if they are parked out in the weather.

FlyingForFun
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:41 pm

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby FlyingForFun » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:48 pm

Delete
Last edited by FlyingForFun on Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CTLSi
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:38 pm

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby CTLSi » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:44 pm

......
Last edited by CTLSi on Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FlyingForFun
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:41 pm

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby FlyingForFun » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:52 pm

Delete
Last edited by FlyingForFun on Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: Cost of ownership

Postby MrMorden » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:48 pm

CTLSi wrote:
Give us a break...the old timers diss light sport until they lose their medicals then become born again flyers of the 'little stuff'. The rub comes from the PP guys and their metal Cessnas and Pipers.




Generalize much? I like treating all pilots I meet as unique individuals. I know several "old timers" with medicals who fly preferentially or entirely the 'little stuff', and love the LSAs. Everybody has their own passions in aviation, and it usually has little to do with a medical.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA


Return to “Experimenter's Corner”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dstclair, hirschr, TimTaylor and 0 guests