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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:23 am
Posts: 361
Location: Allen, TX
$4780 would be for an LSA that is used for instruction. You should expect between $1400 - $1800 depending on hull value.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
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Location: Lock Haven PA
Widgeteye wrote:
I had no idea insurance for LSA was this high.


What I'm paying is for a plane being used in commercial service (primary flight instruction and rental). For an individual owner/operator, the rate is likely to be half as much. But, do talk to one of the Big Three aircraft insurance vendors (Avemco, AOPA, EAA) before you commit to buying your own aircraft!

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The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
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Location: noble, IL USA
Widgeteye wrote:
drseti wrote:
I think I can. See http://avsport.org/acft/N66AV_opercost.pdf for a breakdown of my first year's costs


Insurance for an LSA is 4780.00 per year???
This may put it out of the ballpark for me. I had no idea insurance for LSA was this high.


That is for a commercial operation. For an individual it is about 1/3 of that for full coverage.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:50 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Amarillo, Tx
drseti wrote:
Widgeteye wrote:
I had no idea insurance for LSA was this high.


What I'm paying is for a plane being used in commercial service (primary flight instruction and rental). For an individual owner/operator, the rate is likely to be half as much. But, do talk to one of the Big Three aircraft insurance vendors (Avemco, AOPA, EAA) before you commit to buying your own aircraft!


Oh, ok, that's more like it, my hackles are back down. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:49 pm
Posts: 764
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Marty, Paul's LSA is used commercially - that is, for both flight instruction and rental. Consequently, his premium is going to be substantially more than coverage for a plane flown for non-commercial purposes.

Having said that, folks new to aviation and to LSA a/c are sometimes surprised by the high initial premiums charged by insurance carriers. These somewhat eye-opening premiums appear to be set for a number of reasons: limited FAA accident data (since the a/c class has only existed for 8 years), varied interest by the individual carriers in providing coverage to this class, this a/c class being somewhat less capable to handle some flight conditions (the crosswind comments apply here), and some PPL pilots receiving inadequate (at least, for them) transition training to LSA's. All of these factors are maturing over time, of course.

Here are a couple of referrals I think you might find helpful, since you're still 'hanging in there' and researching all this:
-- AOPA offers free 6-month membership to student pilots, including SP students. Join AOPA (aopa.org) - consider taking a 'first SP lesson' if that's really necessary - and then mine their extremely broad range of student-related and aircraft ownership-related tutorials, articles, etc. to bore in on the issues you wish to further research. Forums like this one can only pass so much (accurate) info. Specifically and as one small example of their resources, download the AOPA aircraft-ownership Excel spreadsheet, which is cleverly designed to prompt you for info necessary for the kind of plane you are intending to buy, own & fly, and generate ownership costs, annually, based on your info. A good way to get started ID'ing the varied, vetted, professionally prepared resources AOPA offers its members is to simply call one of their technical counselors (once you are a member), tell him/her what you are trying to further research, and let them help you ID the relevant resources.
-- WRT insurance specifically, I suggest you call Falcon Insurance (http://www.falconinsurance.com). There are many (many!) aviation insurance brokers, including a brokerage affiliated with AOPA, that write for a variety of carriers, have eons of experience, and can answer any Q's you might have. I recommend Falcon because of their excellent rep, the quality of the carriers they write for, and the candid info I got from them about the aviation insurance industry when shopping for coverage. You won't need to seek a quote (and you shouldn't, yet...) to get an overview of what to expect if you are a newly licensed SP with very limited PIC time and an LSA a/c of a given value, based at a specific airport (and hangared or out on the ramp?). It will boil down to a higher premium for an initial period of time, and then a ratcheting down of the premium should you remain accident and claim free, which is typical for all new pilots who wish to become a/c owners.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:56 pm
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I have used my PiperSport for X/C most of its 375 hours so far. Usual distance is around 300 nm and have gone as far as 700 nm in a day. I have found it to be a comfortable platform most of the time. It does get a little bumpy on hot mid-summer days. If possible, I do try to travel early/later in the day to avoid bumps. The Dynon autopilot has been solid and makes the trip easy. If I had to hand fly all of the time, my distances would be shorter each segment.

I can easily get 5 hours out of the 30 gallons of fuel that it holds and I usually fly about 115 knots. Max is a real 120 knots.

I have a medical, so light sport was an option, not a requirement. My normal trips include my wife and myself. As she is of slight build and is not prone to large luggage requirements, useful load has been adequate.

So for my situation at least, LSA has been a good cross country platform.

Duane


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:31 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:46 pm
Posts: 154
Location: Phoenix, AZ
'just returned from a 500nm trip down the Baja. Phoenix to Loreto. Smooth flying and autopilot 90% of the way. 'Had an easy 2 hrs fuel left on the trip down, due to tailwinds. 120-152 kts ground speed! CTsw, 2 souls, and luggage for several days.
Another CT flyer just did Afton Wyoming to Sun-n-fun (including 440nm over ocean!), and another did Tucson to Duluth last week.
Yup, XC is possible, and done often!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:10 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:49 pm
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Location: Jacksonville, FL
For Duane & Tim, as well as other LSA owners who've responded to this thread, how about helping Marty with his insurance premium question (aka: concern)? What is your annual premium for the hull value declared and max claim value (probably $1M), based on how much fixed wing PIC flight time. 3 or 5 or 7 data points would help us fair a nice curve representing current insurance costs for LSA's, I'm thinking.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:23 am
Posts: 361
Location: Allen, TX
Good thread on insurance cost: http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/111 ... #entry7518

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:30 pm 
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Insurance last year for me was $2,073.00. That was for $1,000,000 per occurrence and $100,000 per passenger and an insured value of 150k.

Hope this helps.

Duane


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:49 pm
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Location: Jacksonville, FL
Duane:

Hours as PIC?

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Jack
RAF Florida State Liaison
Please visit www.theraf.org


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:08 pm 
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