Sport Pilot Talk

While Halon seems to be the FAA bottle of choice, does anyone carry a dry chem or C02 system? Have you had to use one in the air?

I'm thinking about grabbing a 5 lb dry chem until I can afford Halon; though being temporarily blinded by dust or coughing concerns me, it seems like it would beat the heck out of an in flight BBQ. Pop open the door for ground reference and not worry about a hard landing, as it's the insurance company's plane by then.

Thoughts?

Not me; I've been carrying a small Halon bottle for the past 31 years. (I hope it's still good; it still registers full pressure...)

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The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org

Might want to have it serviced. Most bottles under pressure require hydrostatic testing on a regular basis.

That aside, any interactions (even anecdotal) with anyone who's had an inflight fire? At 3-4 thousand feet, even a 1200fpm forward slip is gonna leave you cooking for a while.

Very true. That's why I like to teach steep spirals. Not required by the Sport Pilot PTS (or even Private, for that matter -- this is a Commercial Pilot maneuver). But, in most LSAs, it's the quickest way to get you down, at about 2000 fpm, without picking up excess airspeed. (Kids, adult supervision required. Don't try this at home.)

_________________
The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org

2000 fpm w/o excessive airspeed - color me curious.

Slow down into white arc, full flaps, power to idle, hold stick back to appropriate airspeed (60 KIAS in my plane), and roll into a 60 degree bank. Try this with a qualified instructor before you try it by yourself. During practice, start at an altitude similar to what you use for power-on stalls, and start roll out no less than 1500 AGL.

_________________
The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org

I'll have to try this -- the allegro i've been flying as of late has around a 12:1 glide ratio with prop stopped -- prop spinning seems to be more like 16:1.... damn that great wing!


Know of any videos that exist showing this?

Yeah, it would be tough to get down quick in a sailplane! (Of course, how often do those have an engine fire?)




Here's one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4QYnru2q0A&NR=1 They only show about 1500 fpm descent, but I don't see any evidence that they're using flaps.

_________________
The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org

Is it the drag from the flaps that keeps the airspeed down or is it just the pitch of the nose, like with straight and level flying?

What keeps you slow is a combination of drag from the flaps, plus back pressure on the stick. That 60 deg bank then increases your descent rate, since much of the wing's lift is redirected from the vertical to the horizontal.

_________________
The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org

Will definitely look for a CFI willing to teach this down here; thanks!

Back to fire extinguishers: As it happens, there was a Safety Fair at one of the local Jax airports (CRG) yesterday and we spent some time talking to the FD 'educator' and fighting his propane-powered fire. (Very clever demo...). Our reason for attending was my curiosity about the current state of fire extinguishers, as we wanted to make the best choice for a new extinguisher near/at one end of the kitchen.

Interestingly, the best B:C class agent remains what it was when I did fire fighting training in Sub School: potassium bicarbonate

[From Wikipedia: "Potassium bicarbonate is used as a fire suppression agent ("BC dry chemical") in some dry chemical fire extinguishers, as the principal component of the Purple-K dry chemical, and in some applications of condensed aerosol fire suppression. It is the only dry chemical fire suppression agent recognized by the National Fire Protection Association for firefighting at airport crash rescue sites. It is about twice as effective in fire suppression as sodium bicarbonate.]

Also interesting to me was the fireman's explanation that Ansul remains the premier company for such products and Purple K is still considered the best of the many variants of potassium bicarbonate. (The MilSpec version of this powder is so fine that, in a jar or bottle, it behaves like a liquid as one rolls the container around).

But...what about in a plane? In our AA-5, with a sliding canopy we could fly while open, I suppose an argument could be made to carry a dry chem extinguisher. But in most GA/LSA a/c I've seen, I'd have great fear that the instant cloud of dry chem would 'drown' my respiratory system and disable me. I had to fight a fire with a dry chem extinguisher in the confines of a small boat cabin some years ago, and it's quite eye-opening to discover how instantaneously the viz goes down and the breathable air goes away. Better to go thru the standard EP (kill the electrical system, emergency descent, etc.), in my mind.

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Jack
RAF Florida State Liaison
Please visit www.theraf.org

Thanks, Jack. Yeah, shipboard firefighting was a blast; though I did it on targets and not on a sub. And it was training, luckily no real fires aboard.

But what got me concerned is this incident from avweb. Obviously, gear fluid isn't an issue in an LSA but, with enough heat, anything burns. And it's a long way down when something goes wrong.

For those who are AOPA members (and remember, student memberships for 6 mos. are free...), here is a 'Real Pilot Stories' segment, by those involved, of a cockpit fire in a GA a/c.

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/pilotstories/ ... hecockpit/

Immediately below it are links to both:
-- Learn more about: In-Flight Electrical Fires Safety Brief
-- Emergency Procedures Safety Advisor

FYI: "Each Real Pilot Story is a true account of a good flight gone bad. Listen to pilots who really have “been there, done that” tell their harrowing tales in hopes of helping the rest of us become better pilots. All presentations contain audio."

_________________
Jack
RAF Florida State Liaison
Please visit www.theraf.org