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Paul Hamilton
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:21 pm 
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Jim Stewart wrote:
I hate to be a hanger lawyers, but I still question whether Sport Pilots can legally fly SVFR.

FAR 91.157 (the SVFR reg) provides an exception to FAR 91.155 (the private pilot visibility reg).


I thought 91.155 was for all pilots not just private pilots. What about Rec pilots or commercial, ATP? Is there another VFR minimum for them?

I thought 91.155 was for all pilots? Sport to atp/jet????

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Paul is a Sport Pilot CFI/DPE and the expert for ASA who writes the books and produces the DVD's for all pilots flying light sport aircraft.
See www.SportAviationCenter.com www.Sport-Pilot-Training.com and www.BeASportPilot.com to Paul's websites
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dstclair
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:11 pm 
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Without a doubt the FARs are less than clear on the subject but, to be honest, this is true in many areas. It's true that 61.315 doesn't explicitly allow SVR but on the other hand it doesn't prohibit, either. I interpret 61.325 to specifically allow SVR in Class B, C and D:

(c) Applicable flight rules of part 91 of this chapter for operations in Class B, C, and D airspace and air traffic control clearances.

SVR is an air traffic control clearance. Case closed?

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dave
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tu16
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:39 am 
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Location: Bellevue, WA
Paul Hamilton wrote:
Just got off the phone with the FAA and there is no regulation prohibiting sport pilots with an airspace endorsement and 3 miles visibility from requesting SVFR per 91.157 to get around the 1000/500/2000 cloud clearances per 91.155 to fly right next to the clouds and be clear of clouds per SVFR 91.157 :)


Excellent! Thanks, Paul, for answering definitively to my question and for confirming my reading of FARs. No doubt the next edition of your excellent "Sport Pilot Checkride" book will only get better by including this correction and clarification. Thanks again!
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EppyGA
 Post subject: Re: It is so.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:12 pm 
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Posts: 48
bryancobb wrote:
Now we can flush all the chat in this thread and boil it down to the following:

1) Day SVFR IS available for Sport Pilots, if needed, to enter controlled airspace when marginal weather is present.
2) While flying under Sport SVFR, 3 Miles of in-flight Visibility and Clear of clouds must be maintained.
3) The pilot must request SVFR from ATC. ATC will not offer it.

Crystal clear.


Are we saying this doesn't apply?

(i) The person being granted the ATC clearance meets the applicable requirements for instrument flight under part 61 of this chapter;

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Randy Epstein
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tu16
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:28 pm 
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dstclair wrote:
Without a doubt the FARs are less than clear on the subject but, to be honest, this is true in many areas. It's true that 61.315 doesn't explicitly allow SVR but on the other hand it doesn't prohibit, either. I interpret 61.325 to specifically allow SVR in Class B, C and D:

(c) Applicable flight rules of part 91 of this chapter for operations in Class B, C, and D airspace and air traffic control clearances.

SVR is an air traffic control clearance. Case closed?


SP would need SVFR to land VFR in class E surface airport area w/o control tower with 3mi+ vis and < 1000' ceiling clear of clouds. And SP doesn't need endorsements to operate in class E airspace.

SVFR is special VFR. It is not an IFR flight and doesn't require IFR ratings or clearances. "Clearance" for SVFR is needed to help separation between IFR flights and SVFR flights in these conditions when "see and avoid" is problematic for VFR pilot. Essentialy clearance to SVFR would imply abscence of IFR clearances to land while active SVFR is in effect.
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zdc
 Post subject: Re: It is so.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:58 pm 
EppyGA wrote:
bryancobb wrote:
Now we can flush all the chat in this thread and boil it down to the following:

1) Day SVFR IS available for Sport Pilots, if needed, to enter controlled airspace when marginal weather is present.
2) While flying under Sport SVFR, 3 Miles of in-flight Visibility and Clear of clouds must be maintained.
3) The pilot must request SVFR from ATC. ATC will not offer it.

Crystal clear.


Are we saying this doesn't apply?

(i) The person being granted the ATC clearance meets the applicable requirements for instrument flight under part 61 of this chapter;


You just need to look a little closer at the reg. The instrument requirement is only for SVFR at NIGHT.
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Paul Hamilton
 Post subject: Re: It is so.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:10 pm 
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Location: Reno/Tahoe Nevada
bryancobb wrote:
Now we can flush all the chat in this thread and boil it down to the following:

1) Day SVFR IS available for Sport Pilots, if needed, to enter controlled airspace when marginal weather is present.
2) While flying under Sport SVFR, 3 Miles of in-flight Visibility and Clear of clouds must be maintained.
3) The pilot must request SVFR from ATC. ATC will not offer it.

Crystal clear.


I think Bryan has summarized this topic short and sweet

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Paul is a Sport Pilot CFI/DPE and the expert for ASA who writes the books and produces the DVD's for all pilots flying light sport aircraft.
See www.SportAviationCenter.com www.Sport-Pilot-Training.com and www.BeASportPilot.com to Paul's websites
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EppyGA
 Post subject: Re: It is so.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:59 pm
Posts: 48
Paul Hamilton wrote:
bryancobb wrote:
Now we can flush all the chat in this thread and boil it down to the following:

1) Day SVFR IS available for Sport Pilots, if needed, to enter controlled airspace when marginal weather is present.
2) While flying under Sport SVFR, 3 Miles of in-flight Visibility and Clear of clouds must be maintained.
3) The pilot must request SVFR from ATC. ATC will not offer it.

Crystal clear.


I think Bryan has summarized this topic short and sweet


I've heard stories of controllers not necessarily offering SVFR but getting on the radio with a pilot and saying something like, "Is there something SPECIAL you want to ask me?"

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Randy Epstein
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bryancobb
 Post subject: I'm sure
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:25 am 
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Location: Cartersville Georgia
I'm sure all kinds of non-conforming actions take place all the time. Pilots are the ones in charge --in the driver's seat, if you will -- and the controller's purpose in life is to get the pilots up, to their destination, and down, safely,

I have seen controllers help a non instrument-rated privote pilot go up through layer of clouds to VFR on top, several times, when their destinaton was forecasting VFR at arrival time. Just one example...

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Bryan Cobb
Sport Pilot CFI
Commercial/Instrument Airplane
Commercial Rotorcraft Helicopter
Cartersville, Ga
bryandcobb@att.net
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drseti
 Post subject: Re: I'm sure
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:51 am 
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Location: Lock Haven PA
bryancobb wrote:
Pilots are the ones in charge --in the driver's seat, if you will -- and the controller's purpose in life is to get the pilots up, to their destination, and down, safely,


Absolutely true! The term "Air Traffic Controller" is a misnomer -- they are air traffic advisors. The pilot controls the aircraft. See my rant at http://avsport.org/publicat/nonfict/controll.htm

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The opinions expressed in this post are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the position of the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS
AvSport of Lock Haven
http://AvSport.org fly@AvSport.org
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