Alaska-bound!

Pilot? Student pilot? Future pilot? Interested in learning to fly? If you're reading this forum, you've got flying in your blood! SportPilotTalk is a great place to ask questions about this exciting new segment of (more) affordable aviation!

Moderator: drseti

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 5635
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby drseti » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:23 pm

Dnigolian wrote:That's ridiculous! My car is not "in furtherance of my business" unless it's funded by said business.


Ridiculous or not, that's what the FAR says, and any pilot at any level of certificate is obligated to know and follow the restrictions the FAA imposes.

The rule was made for reasons of safety, and is by no means arbitrary. Sport Pilot privileges are granted for purposes of recreational flying only, and those privileges can only be exercised when conditions are perfect. That includes considerations of time pressure. Anyone flying to work is unduly influenced by a necessity to be at work on time, and hence will be under subtle pressures to make a flight whether or not that particular flight is prudent. Financial considerations have nothing whatever to do with how the FARs define "in pursuit of a business activity."

Sport Pilots fly only for fun, and though one's work may indeed be fun, it puts you in a different mindset than when you're doing purely pleasure flying. He or she who has to be somewhere at a particular time should obtain a PPT or above, maintain a current medical certificate, and then will be properly trained and equipped to conduct flights under more stringent conditions, and (presumably) be better equipped to factor time pressures into the decision process.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1888
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby MrMorden » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:28 pm

drseti wrote:The rule was made for reasons of safety, and is by no means arbitrary.


I have to disagree here. Private Pilots are not allowed to fly in furtherance of a business either, yet somehow the definition of what constitutes "furtherance of a business" differs between the two ratings. IMO that is the very definition of "arbitrary."
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 5635
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby drseti » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:37 pm

No, Andy, the language of the FARs is different. Private pilots cannot fly "for compensation or hire." Sport Pilots cannot fly "in furtherance of a business." They have completely different meanings, and the difference in language was entirely deliberate.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

SportPilot
Posts: 1060
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:39 pm

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby SportPilot » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:47 pm

.......
Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1888
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby MrMorden » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:49 pm

drseti wrote:No, Andy, the language of the FARs is different. Private pilots cannot fly "for compensation or hire." Sport Pilots cannot fly "in furtherance of a business." They have completely different meanings, and the difference in language was entirely deliberate.


Ah, I thought they had similar language. My bad. Still seems arbitrary, if the activity is not considered "commercial operations." If I fly over my place of business to look at it from the air, is that prohibited? What if I land at a nearby airport and drive to my office to get the laptop I left there? Vague language generally makes for very poor rules.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1888
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby MrMorden » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:50 pm

SportPilot wrote:If the Sport Pilot limitations don't meet your needs, get a Private, Instrument, or Commercial.


My issue is that the language "furtherance of a business" is vague and hard to comply with.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

SportPilot
Posts: 1060
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:39 pm

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby SportPilot » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:53 pm

.......
Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:55 pm, edited 5 times in total.

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 5635
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby drseti » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:04 pm

MrMorden wrote:My issue is that the language "furtherance of a business" is vague and hard to comply with.


That's exactly why the FAA legal department issues Letters of Interpretation whenever an FAR is challenged.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1888
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby MrMorden » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:40 pm

drseti wrote:
MrMorden wrote:My issue is that the language "furtherance of a business" is vague and hard to comply with.


That's exactly why the FAA legal department issues Letters of Interpretation whenever an FAR is challenged.


But that only happens AFTER a potential violation. That letter cannot protect you from the violation, even if you are acting in good faith. You essentially have to make a judgment call and pray the FAA agrees.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 5635
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby drseti » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:42 pm

MrMorden wrote:You essentially have to make a judgment call and pray the FAA agrees.


Very true. And that, dear friends, is why one must always err on the side of caution!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

N918KT
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:49 pm

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby N918KT » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:35 pm

What if you plan to use a sport pilot certificate to fly to visit a relative or family member? Is that considered "in furtherance of business"?

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 5635
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby drseti » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:42 pm

No, unless you're involved in a business activity with that relative or family member, and discuss or engage in that business as part of the visit.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

Wm.Ince
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:27 pm
Location: Clearwater, FL

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby Wm.Ince » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:53 pm

It seems as though any "purpose" other than "for sport" would be prohibited.
Therefore, if I fly to visit an old friend or with intention of attending a fly-in, would those also constitute a violation of the LSA rules.

I think "for sport," would encompass many things, outside of commercial or business intention.
Bill Ince
CTSW
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 5635
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby drseti » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:28 pm

Follow the letter of the FAR. It doesn't say "for sport and no other purpose." It says "not in furtherance of any business activity." If I'm a Sport Pilot who's an aircraft vendor, taking an LSA to an airshow or fly-in might be problematical. Otherwise, not.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

SportPilot
Posts: 1060
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:39 pm

Re: Alaska-bound!

Postby SportPilot » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:33 pm

.......
Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Return to “Introduce Yourself!”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests