Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

On September 1, 2004 the FAA inaugurated a new pilot certificate dubbed the "sport pilot" that makes learning to fly easier and more affordable that ever. Intended primarily for recreational use, you can now become a pilot with as little as 20 hours of flight instruction! In addition, the FAA also created a new category of affordable "light-sport aircraft"!

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3Dreaming
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:42 pm

drseti wrote:
Only in order to solo; not required for dual instruction.


Dual instruction does not apply to exercising student pilot privileges. The whole conversation has been about whether a student pilot needs a medical to exercise student pilot privileges.

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:54 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
drseti wrote:
Only in order to solo; not required for dual instruction.


Dual instruction does not apply to exercising student pilot privileges. The whole conversation has been about whether a student pilot needs a medical to exercise student pilot privileges.


Which comes down to this: He needs a medical to fly solo above 10,000 feet and he needs a medical to fly solo in other than an LSA. Otherwise, he needs no medical until/unless he has decided he is a student in pursuit of a Private.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:18 pm

I think we are pretty much in agreement that a private pilot who chooses to use a drivers license in lieu of a medical must give up private pilot privileges, and comply with sport pilot privileges.

Why is it so hard to understand that a student pilot who chooses to use a drivers license in lieu of a medical must also give up his student pilot privileges by seeking sport pilot privileges in the same way?

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:27 pm

3Dreaming wrote:I think we are pretty much in agreement that a private pilot who chooses to use a drivers license in lieu of a medical must give up private pilot privileges, and comply with sport pilot privileges.

Why is it so hard to understand that a student pilot who chooses to use a drivers license in lieu of a medical must also give up his student pilot privileges by seeking sport pilot privileges in the same way?


He does exactly that, until he decides to go get a 3rd class physical and get them back. In fact, he never had those privileges without a medical. That's why he can't solo the C150 until he gets a 3rd class physical. But, until then, he can fly an LSA as a student until he decides to do otherwise.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby dstclair » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:34 pm

Enough! :D It is abundantly clear and all seem to agree that the need for a medical as a student pilot to do their solo in an LSA hinges on the students intent (whether to pursue a Private or Sport Pilot ticket). There is no requirement or form to document this intent so it is entirely between the student and their CFI. If I was the CFI, I would encourage the student to keep their options open and focus on the SP. We would agree to discuss the final goal once we accomplished those requirements that were applicable to both. If the students goal was to start flying on the own now, then I'd sign them off for the SP checkride. If their goal was now PP, we'd go forward with those additional requirements after the student got their medical. In this scenario, there is no intent to pursue a PP until the decision point.

Of course, if the student is heck bent on getting their PP, then it would be ethical to respect their wishes and not sign-off for a solo until they showed up with a medical.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:13 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:I think we are pretty much in agreement that a private pilot who chooses to use a drivers license in lieu of a medical must give up private pilot privileges, and comply with sport pilot privileges.

Why is it so hard to understand that a student pilot who chooses to use a drivers license in lieu of a medical must also give up his student pilot privileges by seeking sport pilot privileges in the same way?


He does exactly that, until he decides to go get a 3rd class physical and get them back. In fact, he never had those privileges without a medical. That's why he can't solo the C150 until he gets a 3rd class physical. But, until then, he can fly an LSA as a student until he decides to do otherwise.


So by exercising student pilot privileges with a drivers license in lieu of a medical the student has by de facto made the choice to seek sport pilot privileges whether they realize it or not. They are also now bound to all of the other quirks that a sport pilot student must endure.

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:21 pm

By virtue of no medical, he cannot solo any aircraft other than an LSA and he cannot fly above 10,000 feet. Otherwise, student pilot limitations and Sport Pilot limitations are the same, I think. He can get a 3rd class medical tomorrow and solo a C150 and fly above 10,000 feet if his CFI signs him off for solo in the C150. He has still not necessarily decided on Sport or Private.
Last edited by TimTaylor on Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:28 pm

Enough already. No new information has been posted by anyone in days.

EDIT: Just to add, I don't know of anything that would prevent a student from changing his mind every time he drives to the airport. One day he decides to go for Sport. The next day he decides to go for Private. The next day he decides to go for Sport. Sooner of later he needs to decide, but until he takes a flight test, what would prevent him from changing his mind? He could even take both written test and get two recommendations. If he did it all in an LSA, he could get his 3rd class physical the day before he schedules his flight test, I suppose. I realize this is ridiculous, but no more than this entire thread.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:35 pm

TimTaylor wrote:By virtue of no medical, he cannot solo any aircraft other than an LSA and he cannot fly above 10,000 feet. Otherwise, student pilot limitations and Sport Pilot limitations are the same, I think. He can get a 3rd class medical tomorrow and solo a C150 and fly above 10,000 feet if his CFI signs him off for solo in the C150. He has still not necessarily decided on Sport or Private.


With the medical he can also fly the LSA above 10,000 feet or at night. Again it is not the fact that he is flying a LSA that drives the requirement for a medical, but what he is doing. It's all about what privileges he is exercising.

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:45 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:By virtue of no medical, he cannot solo any aircraft other than an LSA and he cannot fly above 10,000 feet. Otherwise, student pilot limitations and Sport Pilot limitations are the same, I think. He can get a 3rd class medical tomorrow and solo a C150 and fly above 10,000 feet if his CFI signs him off for solo in the C150. He has still not necessarily decided on Sport or Private.


With the medical he can also fly the LSA above 10,000 feet or at night. Again it is not the fact that he is flying a LSA that drives the requirement for a medical, but what he is doing. It's all about what privileges he is exercising.

Jesus. That's what I said. What the hell do you think "By virtue of no medical" means?
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby drseti » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:34 pm

Everyone has made his position clear. Continuation of this discussion serves no useful purpose. I think it's time to move on to another thread.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:55 am

TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:By virtue of no medical, he cannot solo any aircraft other than an LSA and he cannot fly above 10,000 feet. Otherwise, student pilot limitations and Sport Pilot limitations are the same, I think. He can get a 3rd class medical tomorrow and solo a C150 and fly above 10,000 feet if his CFI signs him off for solo in the C150. He has still not necessarily decided on Sport or Private.


With the medical he can also fly the LSA above 10,000 feet or at night. Again it is not the fact that he is flying a LSA that drives the requirement for a medical, but what he is doing. It's all about what privileges he is exercising.

Jesus. That's what I said. What the hell do you think "By virtue of no medical" means?


I said basically the same thing back on page 1 and you were in disagreement with it. The only difference is you keep trying to tie it to airplanes other than LSA, when the airplane really isn't the deciding factor.

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:15 am

drseti wrote:Everyone has made his position clear. Continuation of this discussion serves no useful purpose. I think it's time to move on to another thread.


Paul, do you agree that a student pilot must comply with the sport pilot limitations to exercise student pilot privileges with a drivers license in lieu of a medical?

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:14 am

Not counting gliders, helicopters, gyro-copters, powered parachute, balloons, blimps, or whatever...and assuming proper check-out, etc...
And, all pilots must conform to the limitations of their certificate and the aircraft they are flying...

Any pilot must have an FAA medical or Basic Med to solo or act as PIC in an aircraft other than LSA. A student can solo, but not act as PIC.
A Sport Pilot can never solo or act as PIC in an aircraft other than LSA.
Any pilot can solo or act as PIC in an LSA with a driver's license, FAA medical, or Basic Med. A student can solo, but not act as PIC.
Any pilot operating an LSA without an FAA medical or Basic Med must comply with Sport Pilot privileges and limitations.

The question at hand is when and if a student pilot flying an LSA needs an FAA medical or Basic Med.
The answer is never if he is seeking a Sport Pilot certificate in an LSA.

So, if he is seeking a Private certificate in an LSA, when does he need an FAA medical?
The answer is before his instructor recommends him for a flight test and before he takes a flight test.

So, the only remaining question is how long before?
This is where we disagree and will always disagree.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby drseti » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:24 am

You're getting into the weeds here, Tom.
Unless solo, there are no "student pilot privileges" to exercise. Anyone who has either the TSA citizenship endorsement or has met the Alien Flight Student Program background check requirements can receive dual instruction in anything, with or without a medical or driver's license. Only the aircraft limitations dictate what can and can't be done in dual instruction. "Privileges" only apply for solo flight. At that point, yes, in an airplane the drivers license medical limits the student to the SP restrictions.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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