Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

On September 1, 2004 the FAA inaugurated a new pilot certificate dubbed the "sport pilot" that makes learning to fly easier and more affordable that ever. Intended primarily for recreational use, you can now become a pilot with as little as 20 hours of flight instruction! In addition, the FAA also created a new category of affordable "light-sport aircraft"!

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3Dreaming
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:02 am

So if a private pilot requires a medical to exercise their privileges in a LSA, why shouldn't the same apply to a student pilot?

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:05 pm

3Dreaming wrote:A question for Paul and Tim, is a private pilot flying a LSA above 10,000 feet or at night required to have a medical?

Yes, an FAA 3rd class or Basic Med. He is exercising his Private Pilot privileges, not Sport Pilot privileges.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:08 pm

3Dreaming wrote:So if a private pilot requires a medical to exercise their privileges in a LSA, why shouldn't the same apply to a student pilot?
Because the Student can be considered a "Sport Pilot student" until he says he is a "Private Pilot student."
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby drseti » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:07 pm

I agree with Tim on that. If the student doesn't declare intent, he or she is like an undeclared major at a university, free to take any General Education courses. (In the flight world, SP training also fulfills the PP General Ed requirements.)
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:47 pm

It really would be a good thing if someone at the FAA would go through the FAR's and resolve all of these inconsistencies. On the other hand, maybe not.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:05 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:So if a private pilot requires a medical to exercise their privileges in a LSA, why shouldn't the same apply to a student pilot?
Because the Student can be considered a "Sport Pilot student" until he says he is a "Private Pilot student."


Have you looked at sub part C of the regulations. It says Student Pilot. A student pilot does not have a limitation to fly less than 10,000 feet or within 2,500 feet of the surface like a sport pilot does. Student pilots are not limited to day only, they are allowed to fly at night with the appropriate training and endorsement. Student pilots do not having the limitations that are placed on sport pilots is the reason they are required to have a medical. Just like the provision in 61.23 that allows a student pilot seeking sport pilot privileges to fly using a drivers license, sub part C also has a provision for them to give up the standard student pilot limitations and accept the sport pilot limitations 61.89 (c). When they do this it also changes other aspects of the student pilot regulations. Sub part C is riddled with differences between your standard student pilot and those seeking sport pilot privileges.
A student pilot does not need any special airspace or speed endorsements, unless they are seeking sport pilot privileges.

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:31 pm

Give it a break. A student pilot needs a medical if going for Private. Obviously, he would not be subject to any Sport Pilot limitations. He is going for Private when he decides he is and/or if flying other than LSA in solo flight. Well, unless he is going for Sport Pilot with a medical. Nothing wrong with that.
Last edited by TimTaylor on Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:33 pm

drseti wrote:I agree with Tim on that. If the student doesn't declare intent, he or she is like an undeclared major at a university, free to take any General Education courses. (In the flight world, SP training also fulfills the PP General Ed requirements.)


You are right in that they don't have to declare, but they still have to follow the rules of the university.

Unless you declare that you are seeking sport pilot privileges, then you would be operating under the whole of sub part C as it applies to student pilots. As an undeclared student pilot you would not have the limitation of flying less than 10,000 feet or within 2,500 feet of the surface, or daytime only. You would have the requirement to hold a medical certificate or Basic Med.

Once you declare that you are a seeking sport pilot privileges you give up the standard student pilot privileges and limitations and accept sport pilot limitations. By accepting the sport pilot limitations you can now use your drivers license in place of a medical.

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:36 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
drseti wrote:I agree with Tim on that. If the student doesn't declare intent, he or she is like an undeclared major at a university, free to take any General Education courses. (In the flight world, SP training also fulfills the PP General Ed requirements.)


You are right in that they don't have to declare, but they still have to follow the rules of the university.

Unless you declare that you are seeking sport pilot privileges, then you would be operating under the whole of sub part C as it applies to student pilots. As an undeclared student pilot you would not have the limitation of flying less than 10,000 feet or within 2,500 feet of the surface, or daytime only. You would have the requirement to hold a medical certificate or Basic Med.

Once you declare that you are a seeking sport pilot privileges you give up the standard student pilot privileges and limitations and accept sport pilot limitations. By accepting the sport pilot limitations you can now use your drivers license in place of a medical.

Or vice-versa. There is no FAR that says you must default to Private if you have not declared. If he's flying an LSA, the default might be Sport Pilot. You're making assumptions that don't exist.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:42 pm

Why don't you accept that we don't agree and move on?
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:58 pm

TimTaylor wrote:Or vice-versa. There is no FAR that says you must default to Private if you have not declared. If he's flying an LSA, the default might be Sport Pilot. You're making assumptions that don't exist.


I'm not saying you must default to anything. I am saying that student pilots must follow the regulations that apply to a student pilots. Do you not agree with that?

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:03 pm

EXAMPLE:

I think I'll take flying lessons (no medical). I get 8 to 10 hours in a C150 and am ready to solo (no medical). My CFI tells me I need a 3rd class FAA medical to solo. I'm not sure I want to do that and haven't decided if I want a Private or Sport, so I find another FBO (or the same FBO) with an LSA (no medical). I get 5 hours or so and my CFI says I'm ready to solo (no medical). I solo the LSA (no medical). I'm now ready to work on cross-country (no medical). I tell my CFI that I'm not sure if I want a Sport or Private so let's make sure the cross-country flights meet both Sport and Private requirements (no medical). I complete my cross-country requirements for Sport and Private (no medical). I also did 3 hours of instrument training before my solo cross-country (no medical).

So, about now, I need to take a written and get my 2 or 3 hours of dual in preparation for the flight test. I think I'll go get a 3rd class medical and my night flight training and go for Private. OR, I think I'll forgo the medical and go for Sport.

I see no violation of FAR's.

EDIT: Just can't fly about 10,000 feet because NO MEDICAL.
Last edited by TimTaylor on Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:58 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:04 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:Or vice-versa. There is no FAR that says you must default to Private if you have not declared. If he's flying an LSA, the default might be Sport Pilot. You're making assumptions that don't exist.


I'm not saying you must default to anything. I am saying that student pilots must follow the regulations that apply to a student pilots. Do you not agree with that?

Yes. And until they are a student pilot going for Private, they need no medical.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby drseti » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:30 pm

3Dreaming wrote: As an undeclared student pilot you would not have the limitation of flying less than 10,000 feet or within 2,500 feet of the surface, or daytime only.


True. That would not mean the student has to fly high or at night, but it would be permitted.

You would have the requirement to hold a medical certificate or Basic Med.


Only in order to solo; not required for dual instruction.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
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AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:32 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:Or vice-versa. There is no FAR that says you must default to Private if you have not declared. If he's flying an LSA, the default might be Sport Pilot. You're making assumptions that don't exist.


I'm not saying you must default to anything. I am saying that student pilots must follow the regulations that apply to a student pilots. Do you not agree with that?

Yes. And until they are a student pilot going for Private, they need no medical.


Nothing changes in the student pilot regulations until you are seeking sport pilot privileges. Up until that time you are just a student pilot, and required to follow student pilot regulations.


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