Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

On September 1, 2004 the FAA inaugurated a new pilot certificate dubbed the "sport pilot" that makes learning to fly easier and more affordable that ever. Intended primarily for recreational use, you can now become a pilot with as little as 20 hours of flight instruction! In addition, the FAA also created a new category of affordable "light-sport aircraft"!

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drseti
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby drseti » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:48 pm

Tom, the points you make are all based on the premise that FAA decisions and regulations are carefully thought out, rational, and purposeful. I'm afraid I can't easily accept that premise. ;)
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:14 pm

drseti wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:This difference of opinion exist within the FAA also. It's similiar to the question of do you need a medical to act as safety pilot in an LSA for which you are legal to fly as PIC? Some say yes, some say no.


My take on that question is no, and here's why: to act as a required crew member, one must hold the appropriate medical certificate. When the PIC is under the hood, safety pilot is a required crew member. On that, all seem to agree. Where they disagree is in what medical certificate is appropriate for that crew function. IMHO, and consistent with the Sport Pilot rules, in an LSA, the appropriate medical certificate can be a driver's license.

The FAA specifically authorizes CFIs to instruct in LSAs using a driver's license. They also require SP candidates in any LSA with a Vh greater than 87 knots to receive instrument training, from a CFI, prior to solo XC. To prohibit otherwise authorized CFIs from being safety pilots would (since LSAs are 2-place maximum) potentially make that required instruction impossible. Therefore, FAA must have intended CFIs giving instruction in an LSA using a driver's license medical to act as safety pilots.

When I'm flying an LSA by myself, I think I am a required crew member. I can do that with a driver's license. Therefore, I interpret the FAR's to allow me to also act as safety pilot (a required crew member) in an LSA with a driver's license. If I can fly by myself or put a non-pilot passenger in the right seat, I can certainly be a safety pilot.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:21 pm

There is really no reason to continue this discussion. Again, some people interpret the FAR's strictly as written and others are of the opinion that there are some unintended inconsistencies and/or illogical rules as the result of the introduction of LSA and Sport Pilot. These two differing opinions exist even within the FAA. I'm using the more liberal interpretation. Logic and common sense usually work except with the most dogmatic individuals.
Last edited by TimTaylor on Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:28 pm

drseti wrote:Tom, the points you make are all based on the premise that FAA decisions and regulations are carefully thought out, rational, and purposeful. I'm afraid I can't easily accept that premise. ;)


I agree that there were issues that were created when sport pilot was introduced. I also agree that all FAA regulations are not well thought out. In this case they at least put some thought to it. This leads me to believe that this issue is not just a simple oversight as you inply. If they hadn't put some thought into it, there would be no way for a sport pilot student to get a sport pilot rating without first getting a medical. If the FAA hadn't made that specific change to 61.23 to allow student pilots seeking sport pilot privileges to operate a LSA with a drivers license, then ALL students would still need to have a medical.

I guess I should post the question to FAA legal. If I'm right nothing changes. If I am wrong it opens up things like you thought.

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby rideandfly » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:29 pm

Wanted to post regulation links and AC link being discussed.

Advisory Circular 61-65H

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... 61-65H.pdf

15.2 Medical Requirements.

Once a Student Pilot Certificate has been issued, the pilot must comply with the applicable medical requirements in § 61.23 when exercising student pilot privileges. A person is not required to hold a medical certificate when exercising the privileges of a Student Pilot Certificate while seeking a sport pilot certificate with glider or balloon privileges or while seeking a pilot certificate with a glider rating or balloon class rating. A person exercising the privileges of a Student Pilot Certificate while seeking a sport pilot certificate in a light sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon must have a either a medical certificate or U.S. driver’s license. Refer to § 61.23(c)(2) for associated driver’s license considerations. Refer to § 61.23(c)(3) for student pilot requirements when using “BasicMed” in lieu of a medical certificate, which are applicable when operating under the conditions and limitations set forth in § 61.113(i). For medical certificate requirements and duration, refer to § 61.23.

61.23 Medical certificates: Requirement and duration.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?p ... 3&rgn=div8

(3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate—

(i) When exercising the privileges of a private pilot certificate, recreational pilot certificate, or student pilot certificate, except when operating under the conditions and limitations set forth in §61.113(i);

(c) Operations requiring either a medical certificate or U.S. driver's license. (1) A person must hold and possess either a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter or a U.S. driver's license when—

(i) Exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate while seeking sport pilot privileges in a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon;

(ii) Exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate in a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon;

(v) Exercising the privileges of a student, recreational or private pilot certificate if the flight is conducted under the conditions and limitations set forth in §61.113(i);

61.113(i) covers private pilot operations without current medical, but using Drivers License

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveEC ... .2.61_1113
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:31 pm

We all know what the FAR's say.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby rideandfly » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:34 pm

TimTaylor wrote:We all know what the FAR's say.


Tim,

My post can be used by Prospective Private Pilot and Sport Pilot students that may not know what the FAR's say.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:23 pm

rideandfly wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:We all know what the FAR's say.


Tim,

My post can be used by Prospective Private Pilot and Sport Pilot students that may not know what the FAR's say.

Yes, sorry. I shouldn't have posted that. Thanks.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby rideandfly » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:27 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
rideandfly wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:We all know what the FAR's say.


Tim,

My post can be used by Prospective Private Pilot and Sport Pilot students that may not know what the FAR's say.

Yes, sorry. I shouldn't have posted that. Thanks.


Tim,

No problem.

Thanks,
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:41 am

A question for Paul and Tim, is a private pilot flying a LSA above 10,000 feet or at night required to have a medical?

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby drseti » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:57 am

If a PP is flying an LSA without a medical or Basic Med, he or she is flying under Sport Pilot limitations and privileges. So, no flight above 10,000 (unless within 2000 AGL). Also, no night flying. If the aircraft operating limitations specify "day and night VFR" and the private pilot does have a medical, night and above 10,000 are both permitted.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:20 am

drseti wrote:If a PP is flying an LSA without a medical or Basic Med, he or she is flying under Sport Pilot limitations and privileges. So, no flight above 10,000 (unless within 2000 AGL). Also, no night flying. If the aircraft operating limitations specify "day and night VFR" and the private pilot does have a medical, night and above 10,000 are both permitted.


A simple yes would have been okay. So pilot privileges are the deciding factor in whether a medical is needed to exercise the privileges of ones pilot certificate?

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby drseti » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:33 am

That was one factor, at least until the advent of Basic Med.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby drseti » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:35 am

3Dreaming wrote:A simple yes would have been okay.


For you, that would have been sufficient. But remember, we're educating others here. :)
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

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Re: Can my sport pilot student use his private pilot student certificate?

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:41 am

drseti wrote:That was one factor, at least until the advent of Basic Med.


I was including basicmed in earlier post. I shortened it up for ease of typing.


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