2014 Expo

If you're interested in all things Sport Pilot/Light Sport Aircraft, this is the place to be every January! Mark your calendars. http://www.sport-aviation-expo.com

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Jack Tyler
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Jack Tyler » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:37 am

Except that the turbulence didn't materialize as forecasted.

Carl was MIA at the RAF booth yesterday but Paul, Fast Eddie and Kewl Karen all stopped by.

Don't miss AVweb's Expo report today: 2 videos of new LSA aircraft plus an interview about the RV12 going into steady production in a larger Oregon facility. Hubba hubba, big news abounds...

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/1 ... ail#221282
Jack
Flying in/out KBZN, Bozeman MT in a Grumman Tiger
Do you fly for recreational purposes? Please visit http://www.theraf.org

Nomore767
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Nomore767 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:09 pm

At the Expo today, Friday 17th, RV12 S-LSA demo aircraft was grounded for maintenance. "Maybe' a demo flight tomorrow?

The other plane, N249VA, not available as it was going to be handed over to new owner. Very nice black version of the new paint scheme.

I was kind of surprised at the lack of activity at their booth though, considering the announcements about production.

Some odds and ends I gleaned….Vans guys said hardly anyone removes the wings but had no answer for 'so why don't you fix the wings on and move the fuel tanks there and increase capacity' which me and several guys asked. Mitch Lock really nice guy as are all the Vans staff. Top notch.

RV12 has great useful load, in fact no one beat it, I believe.

Vans guys kind of dodged the question about the fuel tank SB saying it was being 'modified'.

This was my first close up look at the airplane…it seemed awkward to get into, and I watched quite a few guys struggle. It wasn't that bad for me but not as easy as the Tecnam P2008, which is…'awesome'!

RV12 S-LSA looks , and I mean no disrespect, really,….it looks like a 'kit-build'. I don't really like the bubble canopy/fuel tank behind the seat combo and the engine is quite close to the pilot. It would be nice to have a glare shield.

The Sport Cruiser was on display by the new owner, beautiful airplane, and nice finish inside and out. I never saw the demo plane as they ran behind schedule and never called me, or another guy, back for rescheduled demo flight. Oh well.
Sport Cruise nicer than the Bristell which looked a bit tired to me. One pilot said the demo was disappointing.

Spent a lot of time talking to various Rotax experts and learned an awful lot about the engine and feel much better about it. I think the 3 week repairman course would be a good investment allowing you to repair, maintain, service and annual your own plane,,,as well as other people's LSAs. Might be an answer to the scarcity of Rotax trained mechanics, in my neck of the woods anyway.

Star of the show for me is the Tecnam P2008. Two models available…one with 912ULS and the other with a turbo 914. The latter is the demo plane and it was really awesome. Flies really well, nicely outfitted, and has a lot of the nice features that you say with other planes "I wish it had this or that" well the Tecnam pretty much does.
Whilst we were sniffing around it…a couple came in, flew it, and bought it!

Had another look at the FD models…there are only two..the CTLS and the CTLSi. Nice enough…but not as nice as the Tecnams in my opinion.

Had a long chat with Phil Solomon of Tecnam, and we'll go listen to his seminar/talk tomorrow.

Legend Cubs were quite beautifully finished airplanes, one on floats.

Cub Crafters Carbon Cub displayed it's awesome take-off performance and slow flying qualities. Awesome airplane.

I liked the Sting and the Rans-19 compares very well with the RV-12.

Going to have a better look at the Phoenix motor glider tomorrow…it's just a neat plane.

Had a really enjoyable day…and my wife did too which is hugely important!!

Cheers, Howard.
Last edited by Nomore767 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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David
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby David » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:15 pm

Howard

Nice write-up, look forward to tomorrows post.

Anyone PIC?
David
EAA 1434 Belfast ME
RV12 EAB - Maiden flight 8/30/12
David's RV12 http://www.rv12pilot.com

MovingOn
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby MovingOn » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:21 pm

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FastEddieB
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby FastEddieB » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:32 pm

I sat in the RV12 - I did struggle with an elegant way to get in.

Liked it overall - it would be on my short list.

Getting out was easier, I kinda swung my butt up and over and slid off the front of the wing. But when I supported part of my weight with my left hand on the wing, the rep warned to be sure to do it on a rivet line. The aluminum is so thin it feels like a tin can - which is part if why it's so light, I suppose.

Fuel in the fuselage does not concern me, since I live with it in the Sky Arrow. But I appreciate other's concerns.

More about the show to follow when I get home - in Malabar, FL with friends tonight and Tallahassee tomorrow.
Last edited by FastEddieB on Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
FastEddieB@mac.com

Nomore767
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Nomore767 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:44 pm

On the high-wing v low-wing LSAs….

I kinda prefer the high wing..for ME. My wife and I can get into them more easily. I saw a number of the more senior age group of pilots struggle to step into the bubble-canopy models. Not so much the high wing models. The Tecnam P2008 was easy to get into.

In the FL sun..many talked about the need for good sunshades and the sunlight on the glass panels. For me the high wing alleviates this to a large extent.

Many of us senior age group guys also seems to struggle a bit with getting the canopy down…again I worry about egress in the vent of a turn over. Rans S-19 has a nice sliding canopy.

I appreciate Eddie's comments though because he has many hours in the Sky Arrow and I've watched his videos and was intrigued. Sorry I missed you Eddie.
I had a good long look at the Sky Arrow although my wife didn't like it so much…not for us she said, as I trudged meekly behind her sighing. She who must be obeyed!
( I still think it's neat though, sorry honey).

Surprise for me was the Jabiru (can't remember the model #) but it was kinda cool…interesting engine and loads of baggage space.

One low wing that was definitely awesome was the Avion Lightning….really fast and cool passes along the display line.

I must say the demo pilots did an astounding job demonstrating a wide range of LSA aircraft!

MovingOn
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby MovingOn » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:17 pm

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Last edited by MovingOn on Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore767
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Nomore767 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:56 pm

I'm going back to sit in the Sky Arrow tomorrow. My wife didn't like it at all. Part of the 'doesn't look like a 'normal' plane thing I think, but hey, that's individual taste I suppose.

I think the view is a cross between a fighter pilot and a glider and unlike anything I've seen before.

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FastEddieB
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby FastEddieB » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:05 pm

Karen says there are times she wishes we were side-by-side, but most times doesn't mind the back at all. From there she has a great view in both directions, and she sits higher than me so she can also see much of the panel.

Coincidentally it was at the Light Sport Expo in 2007 when one of the Hansen twins (Mitch or Mike) gave her a test flight. I was relieved when they taxied in and she gave a big thumbs up!

Image
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
FastEddieB@mac.com

c162pilot
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby c162pilot » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:59 pm

Howard, I attended Phil's seminar on Thursday morning, and was one of 2 potential customers in the session. I found his presentation very worthwhile and made me feel much more conformable about Tecnam the company. I think there may be an Astore in my future (I seem to prefer low wings).

Sounds like today was a better day at the show than Thursday. I arrived around 9:15am and left by about 2pm having seen everything. There where no flying displays on Thursday. I was very impressed with the Garmin booth and as always Hilton Goldstein the CEO of WingX was very interesting and informative to talk to. Several vendors who where at Expo where noticeably absent this year (or at least on Thursday).

Nomore767
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:55 pm

C162,

Kind of bored, frustrated and underwhelmed today at Sebring…we arrived at 9am and left at 12pm.

Had great chat with Garmin…learned a lot of things.

Enjoyed reviewing the Jeppessen VFR app at their booth. Neat product and $49 year subscription.

Nobody around at Legend booth other than some dealer from Spruce Creek…no Super Legend to see…disappointing, although their planes are beautiful. No demos in Legend Cub, so I'm not doing very well on the demo front. Ha ha!

Cluster *&^& at Sport Cruiser…gave up on a demo. Went back several times, they were supposed to call me but never did. Same at Vans…got a message about another mechanical so didn't get my demo, I guess it was a mix-up. Plane was flying when we left but no slots. Oh well.
Actually, for ME, overall disappointed in the RV12 but not in Vans. Don't think RV12 is my plane.

Stopped by Bristell again, plane in better shape than yesterday. Nice plane, some nice features. Stumped the guy when I asked how do you get out if it tips over? Didn't have an answer.

Big thing I learned today was that the Tecnam Astore will debut at Sun n Fun. Priced a bit lower than P2008. Astore is to Sierra as P2008 is to Eaglet.
Non-flying P2008, steam gauges and Aera 796(?) was over $172K…but yours for $167,500 special Expo discount. Before you ask, no, I didn't!

Overall..the Expo, for ME, was just…okay. Kind of underwhelming really.

MovingOn
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby MovingOn » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:00 pm

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Last edited by MovingOn on Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore767
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:14 pm

MovingOn wrote:Howard, go ahead and order your SkyCatcher. You know you want one. What is the combined weight for you and your wife?


Gayle wants a Tecnam Turbo!! :) Our combined gross weight is what makes useful load less useful! Haha!

Actually, the C162 would be 99% me and occasional flights together so the weight isn't a problem. Together we would fly about 2.5 hours before stopping anyway so that's not a problem. Skycatcher isn't really a comfortable plane though.

I 'might' try talking to Cessna again. Last time they were amazingly offhand about new sales which wasn't encouraging.

Right now, realistically, my 'list' has gone blank. Perhaps in a while after we return from the show I'll feel differently. I'm starting to think about going the medical and flying club route…which isn't that inspiring either really, so we'll see.

Guess I'm getting jaded? Must be because I didn't get a Garmin baseball hat at the Expo.

MovingOn
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby MovingOn » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:30 pm

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Last edited by MovingOn on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dstclair
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Re: 2014 Expo

Postby dstclair » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:46 pm

again I worry about egress in the vent of a turn over

I see this concern expressed many times and do agree that it is a valid concern -- just that it may be over weighted in the decision criteria. A few things to consider:

    Likelihood - the flip-over event is more likely in a high-wing than a low-wing due to center of gravity

    Egress from the aircraft - I do not believe one is assured the structure of our LSA's will hold in flip-over such that the doors of a high-wing won't become wedged closed


    Off airport landing plan - Do you plan on pulling the chute (if equipped) or landing in uncertain terrain. I've made the decision to pull the chute unless I'm 100% certain of the landing area
dave


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