2014 Expo

If you're interested in all things Sport Pilot/Light Sport Aircraft, this is the place to be every January! Mark your calendars. http://www.sport-aviation-expo.com

Moderator: drseti

Nomore767
Posts: 890
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:35 pm

Dave,

Thanks for that, good tips.

I hadn't thought about the different centers of gravity, low versus high wing. Good point.

I'll have a look at those tools too, I also hadn't thought about a tool that could break through the perspex either.

Cheers, Howard.

c162pilot
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 pm
Location: New York - HPN

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby c162pilot » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:51 pm

Howard,

Glad I am not the only one who was underwhelmed with Expo. This makes two years in a row for me.

I have flown both the Bristell and the RV12 and in my opinion the RV12 has better flying manners. I am also checked out in the Cessna 162 (had one on order but that is another story) and as a result generally prefer the Garmin avionics over the Dynon.

I currently own a third of a DA40-XLS and it caused me to appreciate four things: 1) low wings and bubble canopy's, 2) superb fit and finish, 3) someone that will answer the phone when there is a problem with the aircraft and 4) speed.

So I as result my short list is down to the Tecnam Astore and Vans RV-12. Both come from companies that have a very good chance of being around for a while, both I think we get as close to the 120 Kt limit (my test flight in the RV-12 last year I observed 119 Kts indicated and 121 Kts true at 1,300 feet) however based on my time spent in the Tecnam P2008 I am making an assumption that the fit and finish of the Astore will be as good and the P2008 and combined with the option of the Garmin G3X is pushing me in the Astore direction. The big decision will be which engine, if you spoke with Phil Solomon you know he is very enamored with the performance of the Rotax 914, I think I would prefer the overall simplicity of the 912i.

To be honest the ideal S-LSA for me would be a Rotax powered DA20 that is put in a diet and re-certified to S-LSA limits however I do not think that Christian Dries, owner and CEO of Diamond, has any interest in this end of the market.

Stephen.

Nomore767
Posts: 890
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:36 pm

Stephen,

Good post.

I had a flight in the Tecnam p2008 with the 914turbo engine and it was simply awesome. Very smooth and quiet. On take off I didn't realise it actually was a turbo but the demo pilot told me and said (if I remember right) to pause and wait a second to push the throttle all the way forward as the turbo kicks in.

I'm looking at the Tecnam price list they gave me for 2014:-

Astore

Base price $141,800
2 x Dynon 10" $172,600 Interestingly Garmin GX3 n/a for Astore but is available for P2008 which is $175,500

Deluxe interior $3,950 Astore only
Rotax 912IS upgrade $12,700
Rotax 914 Turbo $24,900 Includes 3 blade prop (note: I remember being told it's a 1200 hr TBO)

Of course there are numerous other options but these stand out and I thought you might be interested.

The Astore seems to be a low wing version of the P2008 because they seem so similar. The P2008 has a neat power lever (not an in/out throttle). The choke is a button behind the power quadrant which includes a fuel selector (left/right no Both) and fuel gauges either side.

At the Expo, Tecnam said they had hoped to bring the Astore but it was held up but should be at Sun N Fun in April. Also was told that Tecnam are going to open a new office (dealership?) at Sebring within the next few months.

Phil Solomon told me that you order your Tecnam model, avionics and options and the factory in Italy complete it as such in Italy and ship it to USA as such. Even if Garmin is US made for example. I asked him because I'd heard they add avionics in States and some customers had 'issues', he said this was not the case.

Apologies if you already know this but I thought it might be helpful.

Cheers, Howard

Nomore767
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:40 pm

Tried to upload a picture but I can't do it..help?

MovingOn
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:34 pm

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby MovingOn » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:50 pm

.......
Last edited by MovingOn on Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Nomore767
Posts: 890
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:00 pm

Thanks, I'll try that!

We have some pix on the camera chip . I'll try and choose a few of the best.

BTW…where did you get a photo of Tom Cruise in an AOPA hat?

Nomore767
Posts: 890
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:35 pm

Having a problem…it says my pic is too big when uploading from iPhoto.

Exceeds the 256 Kib limit at 1 mb.

MovingOn
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:34 pm

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby MovingOn » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:49 pm

.......
Last edited by MovingOn on Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore767
Posts: 890
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:04 pm

Tecnam P2008 with Rotax 914 Turbo
Attachments
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c162pilot
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 pm
Location: New York - HPN

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby c162pilot » Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:43 pm

Howard,

What where you impressions of the flying qualities of the P2008 and can you compare to the C162.

Phil Solomon did tell me that Tecnam would offer the Garmin G3X as an option in the USA on the Astore.

Stephen

Nomore767
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:07 pm

Stephen,

I'm just referring to the 2014 price list Tecnam are giving out at the show. It says the P2008 has both Dynon and Garmin options whereas the Astore only has Dynon.
That being said Phil did say they can pretty much configure your plane as you want so I'd have to say check with him.

The P2008 flies beautifully. Controls felt harmonized and not overly light. I'd have to get used to the best seat position (it adjusts fore and aft, seat rises as you go forward). The stick bends such that it's easier to swing your feet in.For me the P2008 stick felt a bit higher than I'd like but I'm sure I'd get used to it.

The Skycatcher 'stoke' is really good. Much has been said to knock the design but if you can imagine your hand on a stick forward, aft, left, right then the stoke matches that and I feel the controls are all harmonized. I prefer heavier to lighter but that's just me. Some guys seem to look at the stoke as they fly rather then just fly it as you would any joystick.
By design the stoke allows you to freely swing your feet in with no obstruction at all.

The P2008 felt better at low speed approaching the flare than the C162 which tends to make you over control as it gets lighter. I think this may be why there are some tail strikes in the C162.

In the air the C162 is really responsive and it's easy to fly maneuvers. The P2008 is the same, excellent.

Flocker
Posts: 633
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Location: Atlanta GA; Home Airport: PDK

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Flocker » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:24 pm

c162pilot wrote:Howard, I attended Phil's seminar on Thursday morning, and was one of 2 potential customers in the session. I found his presentation very worthwhile and made me feel much more conformable about Tecnam the company.


Could you expand on this? What specifically made you more comfortable?

Howard, what were your thoughts after attending this morning's session?

Nomore767
Posts: 890
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:58 pm

Jim,

We did plan on going to Phil's session but we arrived too late. However, we did one better, in our view, because we sat down and talked with him, one on one for about 40 mins before the demos.
During this we plied him with questions about Tecnam, complaints we'd heard from others about support and customer service at Tecnam and I must say he answered everything straight up and mentioned the issues we brought up. We feel he was honest and sincere and though admitting he and Tecnam weren't perfect they have made every effort to do a good job. He mentioned some complainers who had takes to the web and were basically serial complainers. One guy had complained so much about a perceived 'fault' in his avionics that wasn't there that Tecnam actually paid to do new software to try and fix it, even though it turned out they were right, and he still wasn't happy.
We talked about the scarcity of Rotax trained guys in the carolinas and said he would do what he could to direct us to the nearest ones and would even pay to take our mechanic through the Repairman course.
If this is true then I can't fault him or Tecnam.

He talked a lot about Tecnams history and their plans so at the end we think he basically gave us the short version of his session.

I have a couple of pics of us at the Expo. Is it alright to post them?

BTW…did you sign a contract with anyone??!!

Nice to hang out with you and compare notes about planes and stuff!

Cheers, Howard

Nomore767
Posts: 890
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:04 pm

Stephen,

Do you mind sharing the story about 'almost owning' a Skycatcher? PM me if you want to, in total confidence.

Cheers, Howard.

c162pilot
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:40 pm
Location: New York - HPN

Re: 2014 Expo

Postby c162pilot » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:35 am

Flocker,

To answer your question, Tecnam is a privately help company and as such its financials are not available for review. However what I did learn is that Tecnam is one of the largest suppliers of piston engine aircraft outside the USA with many going to training fleets in Airline Academies. With (if I recall correctly) more than 5,000 planes sold and flying this implies a good support network. Tecnam is also branching out into Part 23 certified aircraft with two new offerings of which one is being financed by money from the Italian government. Over the years Tecnam has done aero structures contract work for Airbus amongst others, another factor that I find positive. Additionally I learned that Tecnam will be establishing a 'factory' presence in the USA in Florida later this year with their own sales and service center. In looking at the fleet makeups in the UK and Ireland for flying schools and flying clubs I see a lot of Tecnam aircraft many operating from grass fields, which indicates a robust product. I am optimistic that bearing in mind all these facts that an investment in a Tecnam aircraft would be a 'safer bet' than some of the other S-LSA manufactures that are low or lower volume manufactures. I would put Flight Design in a similar category as Tecnam but I am no longer interested in a high wing aircraft. At this time for low wing bubble canopy S-LSA's for the me the choice comes down to the Astore or RV12. I hope this answers your question.


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