hey guys, first post here.
I'm looking to go the Sport Pilot route because that's the type of flying I want to do: weekend flying, uncontrolled airspace, etc. I also am looking to buy some land out in the country and I'd like to build my own strip, but I'm getting ahead of myself. I gotta get flying first.
Anyways, since I'm self-employed, I can take as much time I want for training and I was thinking of perhaps doing some kind of accelerated training...maybe take 2 weeks off or so and camp out in my RV or something near an FBO that will train me. I'd like to do training in a Cub, but that's rare and most places have a Champ or the like.
I am a little confused about the training process and how I can save money: Can I study at home instead of taking ground school at the FBO. If you were in my shoes, what would be your plan of attack for saving money and getting this thing done in the shortest time possible?
Thanks for any advice!
Training advice - save time and money?
Moderator: drseti
Hi Doss - welcome to the bunch.
Question for you: if you're self-employed, and can take as much time as you want for training, and you have the funds to build your own airstrip (and a hangar) ... why are you interested doing it "fast and cheap"?
You can certainly go somewhere and take a "condensed" accelerated sport pilot course. They're often around $2500-$3500 plus room and board (and travel), and usually with no guarantee you'll get your license. Some guys have luck with that, others feel totally ripped off. But you still need to have a Light Sport Aircraft to fly when you get home. So ... wouldn't you need to buy a plane soon? Rental LSA are really hard to find in most places in the country. And remember that Sport Pilot only lets you fly specifically identified Light Sport Aircraft - not every small plane.
And again, if you've got the time and funds, why not go for a full Private Pilot certificate (PPL) (accelerated course or not), which lets you fly Light Sport Aircraft as well as the tens of thousands of other single engine (non-Light Sport) planes for sale or rent around the USA.
Check the Instructor Database at the top of the pages here; you'll find contact info on certified sport pilot instructors. Another good starting point is EAA's sport pilot site: www.sportpilot.org
Edit: Keep in mind you can take sport pilot lessons from just about any Certified Flight Instructor, in just about any light plane (prior to solo work). You don't have to take lessons only from a sport pilot instructor. You just need a Light Sport Aircraft for solo work and final checkride.
Also, you can certainly do "home study" to prepare for the FAA written exam. You can even do the prep online. But's that's only going to save you a couple hundred bucks by not using the flight school's hourly ground training..
My preference: if I had the time and funds, I'd go for full PPL. I wouldn't try to "cram it in" to save time and money. I'd prefer to get a quality training experience at my own speed, with time for me to think about what I'm doing, and what I want to do with it. For many folks, Sport Pilot isn't proving what it was originally promoted to be; it's more a way to get expensive new planes in the air, than to get more pilots in the air.
Feel free to ask questions. That's what we're here for.
Tom
Question for you: if you're self-employed, and can take as much time as you want for training, and you have the funds to build your own airstrip (and a hangar) ... why are you interested doing it "fast and cheap"?
You can certainly go somewhere and take a "condensed" accelerated sport pilot course. They're often around $2500-$3500 plus room and board (and travel), and usually with no guarantee you'll get your license. Some guys have luck with that, others feel totally ripped off. But you still need to have a Light Sport Aircraft to fly when you get home. So ... wouldn't you need to buy a plane soon? Rental LSA are really hard to find in most places in the country. And remember that Sport Pilot only lets you fly specifically identified Light Sport Aircraft - not every small plane.
And again, if you've got the time and funds, why not go for a full Private Pilot certificate (PPL) (accelerated course or not), which lets you fly Light Sport Aircraft as well as the tens of thousands of other single engine (non-Light Sport) planes for sale or rent around the USA.
Check the Instructor Database at the top of the pages here; you'll find contact info on certified sport pilot instructors. Another good starting point is EAA's sport pilot site: www.sportpilot.org
Edit: Keep in mind you can take sport pilot lessons from just about any Certified Flight Instructor, in just about any light plane (prior to solo work). You don't have to take lessons only from a sport pilot instructor. You just need a Light Sport Aircraft for solo work and final checkride.
Also, you can certainly do "home study" to prepare for the FAA written exam. You can even do the prep online. But's that's only going to save you a couple hundred bucks by not using the flight school's hourly ground training..
My preference: if I had the time and funds, I'd go for full PPL. I wouldn't try to "cram it in" to save time and money. I'd prefer to get a quality training experience at my own speed, with time for me to think about what I'm doing, and what I want to do with it. For many folks, Sport Pilot isn't proving what it was originally promoted to be; it's more a way to get expensive new planes in the air, than to get more pilots in the air.
Feel free to ask questions. That's what we're here for.
Tom
CTflyer, thats a really insightful and interesting post.
I'm in my mid-20s and the reason for "fast and cheap" was mainly because i am having a difficult time finding a sport pilot instructor in my neck of the woods that has a plane to train in. Therefore, I was thinking I'd have to go someplace, lodge for a week or so, and get the training done. Also, I wanted to see whether this is truly something I want to do or accomplish. Always wanted to fly (not as a career) and wanted to see if i could do it. If I never fly again after getting my ticket, then so be it. At least I went through with it. I honestly do not see much hope in the future of general aviation with the way fuel prices are going, insurance, and the rising cost of aircraft. I see a common thread in a lot of forums: fly now or forget it later! The average age for pilots is 50+ and sport pilots are around 58...and climbing. $$$
Anyways, a PPL seems almost needless for my needs. I was thinking of getting a used kitfox sometime down the line. Also, I am hard-of-hearing and don't have much confidence in using radios.
Thanks for the info about not needing to train in an LSA the entire time. I think if that's the case, then I can do this locally and then travel somewhere to get checked out in an LSA and solo in that one, presumably the airplane I plan to buy, correct?
Lots of good info, thanks.
I'm in my mid-20s and the reason for "fast and cheap" was mainly because i am having a difficult time finding a sport pilot instructor in my neck of the woods that has a plane to train in. Therefore, I was thinking I'd have to go someplace, lodge for a week or so, and get the training done. Also, I wanted to see whether this is truly something I want to do or accomplish. Always wanted to fly (not as a career) and wanted to see if i could do it. If I never fly again after getting my ticket, then so be it. At least I went through with it. I honestly do not see much hope in the future of general aviation with the way fuel prices are going, insurance, and the rising cost of aircraft. I see a common thread in a lot of forums: fly now or forget it later! The average age for pilots is 50+ and sport pilots are around 58...and climbing. $$$
Anyways, a PPL seems almost needless for my needs. I was thinking of getting a used kitfox sometime down the line. Also, I am hard-of-hearing and don't have much confidence in using radios.
Thanks for the info about not needing to train in an LSA the entire time. I think if that's the case, then I can do this locally and then travel somewhere to get checked out in an LSA and solo in that one, presumably the airplane I plan to buy, correct?
Lots of good info, thanks.
Doss - sounds like you've done a lot of research and thinking about this already. Bravo!
You know, from what I've seen you say, and your "is this something I really want to do" mindset, coupled with your flexible time and funds, I'd think it would be absolutely appropriate for you to find an "accelerated" training program and just go for it. If I were in your situation and location, I'd probably do the same.
You mentioned that average sport pilots are around 58. Wondered where you got that info. I'm just guessing here, but thinking that the "high" average age is because most of those guys are actually full PPL's with lots of hours (and years) already, who have "converted" to sport pilot due to medical issues. I really doubt that the majority of guys who are just learning to fly are sport pilots around 58!
Thanks for the info about not needing to train in an LSA the entire time. I think if that's the case, then I can do this locally and then travel somewhere to get checked out in an LSA and solo in that one, presumably the airplane I plan to buy, correct?
You're right. You can take all your pre-solo sport training at one of your local FBO's. Then you could travel somewhere to get some pre-solo instruction in a specific LSA, then do your solo work in that LSA. One thing to keep in mind: don't fall in love with a plane just because you did your solo work and checkride in it. Get your sport ticket, then do some *more* traveling, try many other planes, then decide.
Other guys here know the Kitfox - they'll likely chime in with their thoughts.
Believe me - I envy the opportunity you've got now!
Tom
You know, from what I've seen you say, and your "is this something I really want to do" mindset, coupled with your flexible time and funds, I'd think it would be absolutely appropriate for you to find an "accelerated" training program and just go for it. If I were in your situation and location, I'd probably do the same.
You mentioned that average sport pilots are around 58. Wondered where you got that info. I'm just guessing here, but thinking that the "high" average age is because most of those guys are actually full PPL's with lots of hours (and years) already, who have "converted" to sport pilot due to medical issues. I really doubt that the majority of guys who are just learning to fly are sport pilots around 58!
Thanks for the info about not needing to train in an LSA the entire time. I think if that's the case, then I can do this locally and then travel somewhere to get checked out in an LSA and solo in that one, presumably the airplane I plan to buy, correct?
You're right. You can take all your pre-solo sport training at one of your local FBO's. Then you could travel somewhere to get some pre-solo instruction in a specific LSA, then do your solo work in that LSA. One thing to keep in mind: don't fall in love with a plane just because you did your solo work and checkride in it. Get your sport ticket, then do some *more* traveling, try many other planes, then decide.
Other guys here know the Kitfox - they'll likely chime in with their thoughts.
Believe me - I envy the opportunity you've got now!
Tom
Thanks again CTflyer for your comments. I wanted to clarify the "average age" of new pilots that I made earlier. Here's what I meant to say:
According to the FAA website, the average age of active pilots increases about 1 year for every year. In 2007, the average age was 45.7, with average age of sport pilots being 53 years old. The number of pilots is declining rapidly from 631k in 2002 to 590k in 2007, although sport pilot is increasing a little bit each year.
http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/avia ... tics/2007/
Interesting data. I'm afraid, though, the generation after me may not be able to enjoy the freedom of flight in a decade or so. Not to mention gas prices and all.
I will keep you posted on my progress! Thanks.
According to the FAA website, the average age of active pilots increases about 1 year for every year. In 2007, the average age was 45.7, with average age of sport pilots being 53 years old. The number of pilots is declining rapidly from 631k in 2002 to 590k in 2007, although sport pilot is increasing a little bit each year.
http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/avia ... tics/2007/
Interesting data. I'm afraid, though, the generation after me may not be able to enjoy the freedom of flight in a decade or so. Not to mention gas prices and all.
I will keep you posted on my progress! Thanks.
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Jim Stewart
- Posts: 467
- Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:49 pm
I have to chime in loud and clear with Ctflyer. I'm also a CT pilot, 56 years old and I tried to get a sport pilot license. I gave up after 100 hours, one year, thousands of dollars and lots of frustration. After being signed off for my Light Sport practical test twice and failing it once, I'm now starting over from the beginning with PPL training.
I think the Light Sport aircraft class is a wonderful idea. I think the Light Sport pilot class is a disaster, with the only mitigating factor being the guys with lapsed medicals being able to fly.
Finding training is just the first issue. Most of the light sport airplanes are much more difficult to fly than the usual Cessna 150 PPL trainer. So the 20 hour expectation is unreasonable. Add to that the fact that most light sport airplanes are not as rugged as a 150 and you have the situation where the school will either not solo you in their plane or will require a buttload of hours . Then there's the issue of the practical test. With the PPL, the examiners have been around for years and the instructors know how to train you to pass. As to sport pilot, there are damn few examiners to begin with and there doesn't seem to be enough consistency between what the instructors teach and the examiners expect.
If there's anything you can do to pass your medical and train as a PPL please do it. You'll have more privileges and you'll probably get there quicker and cheaper.
I think the Light Sport aircraft class is a wonderful idea. I think the Light Sport pilot class is a disaster, with the only mitigating factor being the guys with lapsed medicals being able to fly.
Finding training is just the first issue. Most of the light sport airplanes are much more difficult to fly than the usual Cessna 150 PPL trainer. So the 20 hour expectation is unreasonable. Add to that the fact that most light sport airplanes are not as rugged as a 150 and you have the situation where the school will either not solo you in their plane or will require a buttload of hours . Then there's the issue of the practical test. With the PPL, the examiners have been around for years and the instructors know how to train you to pass. As to sport pilot, there are damn few examiners to begin with and there doesn't seem to be enough consistency between what the instructors teach and the examiners expect.
If there's anything you can do to pass your medical and train as a PPL please do it. You'll have more privileges and you'll probably get there quicker and cheaper.
Thanks for your comments, Jim.
I got my 3rd class medical with no limitations a month ago--and what a ride it was to get it. To make a long story short, I guessed at the hearing portion and I passed. I had told him that I am hard-of-hearing and have trouble discerning speech, but the Doc said that the fact I'm carrying a conversation with him is good enough. He then turned around and said some numbers in a low voice. I got lucky with those, I guess. The doctor was more concerned about my recent trip to the ER for an ankle laceration that infected my heart and the fact taht I had to undergo a cardiac catheterization. FAA doesn't like things like that...but in my case it was just a needless procedure that cost 22k in bills (good thing i had insurance) and a week supply of tylenol. After two months of internal investigation, the FAA approved my medical...but then they screwed up all the details such as name and description (e.g. I have dark hair, but they put blonde, etc). So another month trying to get that fixed and only to have them forget to send me my student certificate. Got it all worked out in the end, but I told them on the phone, "What's the deal? You guys dont' want any more pilots? No wonder the number of pilots are decreasing!"
I'm hoping flight training and getting insurance will be a little less frustrating
I'm prepared for the worst.
Jim, interesting comment about "most" LSA's being difficult to fly than the a Cessna 150. Lots of them in my neck of the woods trying to get sold...some nice ones even at 10-13k. It's tempting. But would they have resale value?
Looks like I'm sold on the PPL route based on you and CTFlyer's comments. Just going to talk to one more guy out in the country. he has a cub and offers sport pilot training. I'll report on my progress!
I got my 3rd class medical with no limitations a month ago--and what a ride it was to get it. To make a long story short, I guessed at the hearing portion and I passed. I had told him that I am hard-of-hearing and have trouble discerning speech, but the Doc said that the fact I'm carrying a conversation with him is good enough. He then turned around and said some numbers in a low voice. I got lucky with those, I guess. The doctor was more concerned about my recent trip to the ER for an ankle laceration that infected my heart and the fact taht I had to undergo a cardiac catheterization. FAA doesn't like things like that...but in my case it was just a needless procedure that cost 22k in bills (good thing i had insurance) and a week supply of tylenol. After two months of internal investigation, the FAA approved my medical...but then they screwed up all the details such as name and description (e.g. I have dark hair, but they put blonde, etc). So another month trying to get that fixed and only to have them forget to send me my student certificate. Got it all worked out in the end, but I told them on the phone, "What's the deal? You guys dont' want any more pilots? No wonder the number of pilots are decreasing!"
I'm hoping flight training and getting insurance will be a little less frustrating
I'm prepared for the worst. Jim, interesting comment about "most" LSA's being difficult to fly than the a Cessna 150. Lots of them in my neck of the woods trying to get sold...some nice ones even at 10-13k. It's tempting. But would they have resale value?
Looks like I'm sold on the PPL route based on you and CTFlyer's comments. Just going to talk to one more guy out in the country. he has a cub and offers sport pilot training. I'll report on my progress!
Just wanted to add my recent and not so recent experience.
I started on the path to PPL in 1971. Got in about 18 hours through 1972 and had just completed a solo cross country when lack of money and a new family caught up with me.
Noticed a couple of years ago that Sport Pilot existed and did some research, including going to Oshkosh last year to look around. I got some demo rides in several light sports and proceeded to look for instruction.
My first contact was in NC, 3 hours from home, where I got in 2 1/2 hours n a Sportcruiser. Shortly after that I found a Zodiac at a local flight school 15 minutes from work. I began there and got several hours in. The Zodiac went down for nearly a month and then the instructor that was certified in it left so I was left a bit high and dry.
With now 34+ hours in the book I made the decision to move along and continue on a path to PPL. I'm flying a 172 now and progressing on. I like the flexibility I'll have to fly different aircraft and at night if necessary.
Good luck on your training and pursuit.
I started on the path to PPL in 1971. Got in about 18 hours through 1972 and had just completed a solo cross country when lack of money and a new family caught up with me.
Noticed a couple of years ago that Sport Pilot existed and did some research, including going to Oshkosh last year to look around. I got some demo rides in several light sports and proceeded to look for instruction.
My first contact was in NC, 3 hours from home, where I got in 2 1/2 hours n a Sportcruiser. Shortly after that I found a Zodiac at a local flight school 15 minutes from work. I began there and got several hours in. The Zodiac went down for nearly a month and then the instructor that was certified in it left so I was left a bit high and dry.
With now 34+ hours in the book I made the decision to move along and continue on a path to PPL. I'm flying a 172 now and progressing on. I like the flexibility I'll have to fly different aircraft and at night if necessary.
Good luck on your training and pursuit.
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westwindsportstar
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:22 am
Hi Doss,
I have been instructing for over 15yrs and sport pilot instructing for the last 2yrs. I will offer the same advice for saving time and money that I do for all students.
There are of course several things that determine the length of time and money required to complete your training. The two biggest issues that I see are how often you fly, and your preparation before the lesson. The less time between flights will always be better than dragging out your training. An accelerated course can be a good ideal, but realize it is also a bit intense. You can have as good a luck flying every other day with maybe 2 flights on one of those days. In general doing it all in under a month will give you most of the same benefits.
The second issue is preparation. When I have a student that shows up for the first lesson having already read all of the student pilot manual and even knowing how to use an E6B, then I know this student is going progress fairly rapidly. He will reduce the amount of ground instruction that he will need by more than a few hours. You will be able to use a home study course to pass your written test, if you have any trouble areas you will be able to clear those up with an instructor.
You should be aware though that while this will reduce your amount of ground instruction, it will not eliminate it. Most of your pre and post flight ground will be a lesson on the maneuvers you will be doing on that flight, and for that time don't try and cut corners. A cockpit can make a lousy classroom, if you don't do an effective ground lesson then you will end up with the instructor trying to explain it in the airplane which is more expensive than ground instruction.
Everyone will progress at different rates in the actual act of learning to fly the aircraft, but by being well prepared and flying often you will reduce your time and money required.
As others have posted, maybe a PPL would suit you as well, or you can get instruction in an aircraft other than a LSA to start off with.
It sounds as if Jim has had a bit of a rough time, but I haven't found any of that to be the case around here. We know exactly what our examiners want to see on the check ride, and we have a choice of several. Our Sportstar has proven to a very rugged trainer, (it now has 1000hrs) at least as rugged as our 150. It is a very easy and forgiving plane to fly and we have not taken more hours to reach solo than in our Cessnas.
If you have any questions I would be happy to try and answer for you and good luck on whatever path you take.
Allan
I have been instructing for over 15yrs and sport pilot instructing for the last 2yrs. I will offer the same advice for saving time and money that I do for all students.
There are of course several things that determine the length of time and money required to complete your training. The two biggest issues that I see are how often you fly, and your preparation before the lesson. The less time between flights will always be better than dragging out your training. An accelerated course can be a good ideal, but realize it is also a bit intense. You can have as good a luck flying every other day with maybe 2 flights on one of those days. In general doing it all in under a month will give you most of the same benefits.
The second issue is preparation. When I have a student that shows up for the first lesson having already read all of the student pilot manual and even knowing how to use an E6B, then I know this student is going progress fairly rapidly. He will reduce the amount of ground instruction that he will need by more than a few hours. You will be able to use a home study course to pass your written test, if you have any trouble areas you will be able to clear those up with an instructor.
You should be aware though that while this will reduce your amount of ground instruction, it will not eliminate it. Most of your pre and post flight ground will be a lesson on the maneuvers you will be doing on that flight, and for that time don't try and cut corners. A cockpit can make a lousy classroom, if you don't do an effective ground lesson then you will end up with the instructor trying to explain it in the airplane which is more expensive than ground instruction.
Everyone will progress at different rates in the actual act of learning to fly the aircraft, but by being well prepared and flying often you will reduce your time and money required.
As others have posted, maybe a PPL would suit you as well, or you can get instruction in an aircraft other than a LSA to start off with.
It sounds as if Jim has had a bit of a rough time, but I haven't found any of that to be the case around here. We know exactly what our examiners want to see on the check ride, and we have a choice of several. Our Sportstar has proven to a very rugged trainer, (it now has 1000hrs) at least as rugged as our 150. It is a very easy and forgiving plane to fly and we have not taken more hours to reach solo than in our Cessnas.
If you have any questions I would be happy to try and answer for you and good luck on whatever path you take.
Allan
Thanks Allan,
Another question...
If I plan to get a sport pilot license, but plan to do the initial training in something like a Cessna 150, does it matter if the instructor is not Sport pilot certified? In other words, could i do the training in the C150 with a PPL CFI (not SP) until i'm ready to solo in an LSA for the sport pilot checkride? At that point, I'd find a SP certified instructor?
Another question...
If I plan to get a sport pilot license, but plan to do the initial training in something like a Cessna 150, does it matter if the instructor is not Sport pilot certified? In other words, could i do the training in the C150 with a PPL CFI (not SP) until i'm ready to solo in an LSA for the sport pilot checkride? At that point, I'd find a SP certified instructor?
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westwindsportstar
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:22 am
Hi Doss,
Every CFI is a Sport Pilot CFI. In other words if you hold a CFI certificate then you can instruct for a Sport Pilot Certificate. There is such a thing as a Sport Pilot CFI certificate which only requires a 150hrs and a Sport Pilot license as a prerequisite, and they can only train Sport Pilots. But a traditional CFI can train Sport Pilot and PPL, so that should not be a problem for you.
Hope that helps.
Allan
Every CFI is a Sport Pilot CFI. In other words if you hold a CFI certificate then you can instruct for a Sport Pilot Certificate. There is such a thing as a Sport Pilot CFI certificate which only requires a 150hrs and a Sport Pilot license as a prerequisite, and they can only train Sport Pilots. But a traditional CFI can train Sport Pilot and PPL, so that should not be a problem for you.
Hope that helps.
Allan
Being an SP student who has trained with a CFI, I'll just point out that there is no requirement for a the CFI to specifically know anything about SP. As far as basic flying is concerned it doesn't matter at all. But some of the regulations (VFR Minimums, LSA restriction etc) may be unfamiliar to a CFI. This isn't a big deal if you studying SP material yourself, but could be confusing if you are relying on the CFI for ground instruction.
Ron
Ron
Ron,rsteele wrote:some of the regulations (VFR Minimums, LSA restriction etc) may be unfamiliar to a CFI. This isn't a big deal if you studying SP material yourself, but could be confusing if you are relying on the CFI for ground instruction.
Ron
Okay...I'm getting there...slowly. What what would be the purpose of looking for a Sport Pilot certified CFI if a regular CFI could just do the job? I've spent all this time running around trying to find a SP CFI in my neck of the woods, it seems. So, all I really ahve to do is just get the SP material myself, study it, and then find a vanilla CFI to do the flight training with (assuming the CFI has an LSA qualified aircraft to solo in)?
DOSS 79,
While this site is a great resource and I have learned ton's of things here. I think it would help you a lot to learn some basic rules and regs from www.sportpilot.org.... this is EAA'w sport pilot website.... I would point you to the Sport Pilot Sourcebook link and The Rules link.. You should get factual answers to most of your questions there. You may even get answers to questions you didn't even know you had yet!!! ...FYI I have been training to be a sport pilot for about 1.5 years and also bought an Allegro 2000 LSA so I am not just telling you this as someone who is uninformed. I do agree with most of the opinions expressed here. Especially the ones about most LSA'S taking longer to learn how to fly for a non pilot, and that there should not be long gaps in your training. Doing so only extends the amount of hours it will take to get licensed and therefore the cost.
Brian
While this site is a great resource and I have learned ton's of things here. I think it would help you a lot to learn some basic rules and regs from www.sportpilot.org.... this is EAA'w sport pilot website.... I would point you to the Sport Pilot Sourcebook link and The Rules link.. You should get factual answers to most of your questions there. You may even get answers to questions you didn't even know you had yet!!! ...FYI I have been training to be a sport pilot for about 1.5 years and also bought an Allegro 2000 LSA so I am not just telling you this as someone who is uninformed. I do agree with most of the opinions expressed here. Especially the ones about most LSA'S taking longer to learn how to fly for a non pilot, and that there should not be long gaps in your training. Doing so only extends the amount of hours it will take to get licensed and therefore the cost.
Brian
Owner of N3081X (Cover Girl) A Beautiful Allegro 2000 as seen on the cover and inside of several magazines!!