Bad Experience with a CFI

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JerryG
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:25 pm
Location: Sarasta FL

Bad Experience with a CFI

Post by JerryG »

I am writing you this note as a warning about a CFI. The instructor's name is Mr. Preston Brandt 2718382 CFI (815) 670.1818. (http://www.fly-mountain-air.com) ... I will just state the facts...

I paid Mr. Brandt $3345.00 in December 2005 for Sport Pilot Lessons ($1495.00 for ground school, 15 hours in a Aerostar Festival @70.00 per hour and $800.00 for a Bravo, Charlie, Delta airspace endorsement).

I traveled to Orlando North Airport (FA83) and received a few days of ground instruction. During that stay in Zellwood I received a total 48 minutes of flight instruction on 12/20/05. We decided to take a break till the first of the year and then continue the flying lessons. Several dates came and passed with no resumption of lessons. After several more false starts, I realized Mr. Brandt had no intention of continuing the training and then fired him. I was told by Mr. Brandt, I would have my refund in two weeks. Mr. Brandt contacted me 2/14/06, we agreed on a $1780.00 refund ($3345.00 less $1495 for ground school and less 1 hour of training @ $70.00 per hour = $1780.00). He then said he would try to repay me $300.00-$400.00 per month.

Having received no refund by 3/10/06, I contacted Mr. Brandt and on 3/25/06 and then I received a $400.00 refund. I contacted Mr. Brandt one time since then...and he once again promised to send me a check in two weeks. As of 2/1/2008 I have yet to received any additional money due to me. Amount due...$1380.00.

It is too bad that Mr. Brandt continues to give the credential of CFI such a bad name. If anyone comes in contact with Mr, Brandt be very, very cautious and remember my experience.

If Mr. Brandt is a representative of the aviation community or of all sport pilot instructors then this new initiative is in a very sorry state. Mr. Brandt's web site is http://www.fly-mountain-air.com where I imagine he finds more students to get money from.

My heart goes out to all other student pilots that Mr. Brandt may have "dealt with". Mr. Brandt has broken ever promise made to me. He promised to train me for 20 hours of flight instruction...he promised to train me for my B, C and D airspace endorsement, he promised to return my money in 2 weeks, then he promised to refund my money monthly until he paid back all money due to me. If Mr. Brandt trains student pilots regarding the FAA rules with the same flagrant disregard of the rules of business, then all pilots are in jeopardy.

I take no pleasure in posting this warning. Just learn from my mistake. If I ever receive my $1380.00 refund, I will post that information on this web site. I believe Mountain Air Accelerated Training is operating currently out of Rockford, IL.
"Time, be careful how you spend it, cause it isn't going to last".
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MikeB
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida area

Post by MikeB »

Jerry, I'm sorry you've had such an experience. I hate to sound cold but that is very very common. Even Rusty Sachs from the Nat'l Assn of Flight Instructors, and someone from the Tampa FSDO, told me they hear of this happening all the time. it is important to check on a school's policies regarding prepayment and refunds. I had signed up for one particular school and found out they required me to keep $1500 on account, and they charge a $1300 "cancellation fee". Therefore I put my check book back in my pocket, turned around and walked out. There are many schools that let you pay as you go.
In a way, a flight school not refunding money sounds like a ripoff. But then when you think of, say, community colleges and other such institutions, they too do not refund all your money, if any at all.
However, in no way am I implying that your situation was your own fault. It certainly wasn't! You were an innocent victim!
While we're on the subject of bad CFI's...I did an intro flight in December after which I signed up for a lesson the next day. I already had gotten my Medical because I wanted to be sure my vision would pass. During this first actual lesson, as soon as we took off and climbed out I felt airsick and was nervous so I asked the CFI to land. (I would have been willing to pay for the full hour.) But instead he refused to land! He spent the next 40 minutes flying around - most of the time with neither of us having our hands on the controls - and he was SCREAMING at me, terrorizing me, trying to force me to take the controls. I refused. He told me he was taking me to Gainesville and that HIS instructor had kicked HIS butt. He then told me if I don't "man up" and take the controls he will make sure I never get to fly anywhere with anyone ever. Eventually we landed. By this point I refused to pay for the lesson because screaming abusively at a student and holding him against his will is not "instruction". I had rented the plane for the purpose of being instructed how to fly it. When he refused to land, he stole the plane from me as far as I'm concerned. Later the school owner expected me to pay for the full lesson plus some "ground school". I offered to pay for 30 minutes of the plane rental and 30 minutes of the instructor's time, which he accepted. He would not listen to my side of the story. He kept saying he had already talked to the instructor. He also kept admitting, "Well I wasn't there so I don't know." He then banned me from the property (not that I intend to return) saying, in front of an employee, that the reason for me being banned is "because you are mentally unstable". Of course I immediately wrote to the FAA and the FSDO and told them all about this, which they investigated. Meanwhile the school stole my medical certificate and sent it to an AME in College Park GA with letters falsely stating that I had "surrendered" it to them and that I told them I did not want to fly anymore. All this time I'd been training at another school and have more than 10 hours but did not know where my certificate was until someone from the Orlando FSDO found out as he was investigating the complaint I had sent to the FAA. So now I've filed a complaint against the school for falsifying reports to the FAA and for stealing my medical certificate. I spoke to someone at this AME's office and she was shocked to find out they had received my certificate under false pretenses and that I've been flying all this time elsewhere.
My point in posting this is to show that there are all kinds of bad CFI's out there, and all kinds of bad schools. Be sure to check any school and any CFI out thoroughly. The AOPA and other such organizations have helpful guidelines for selecting a school or instructor. Even then, some schools have sneaky ways of doing things, knowing how to do them without getting in trouble from the FAA. My advice is, only go to a school that will let you pay as you go.
Also, don't let your bad experience stop you from pursuing your goal of flying.
Last edited by MikeB on Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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CharlieTango
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:04 am
Location: Mammoth Lakes, California

Post by CharlieTango »

mike,

your story is unbelievable.

i'm not saying your making it up, it's just that after flying for 3 decades i have never encountered professional pilots who would behave like that.
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MikeB
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida area

Post by MikeB »

CT, my story is real. Trust me. I am sure even worse things go on and students merely quit flying.
User avatar
CharlieTango
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:04 am
Location: Mammoth Lakes, California

Post by CharlieTango »

mike,

i do believe you, at the same time i find the story otherwise unbelievable.

a cfi more so than a pilot licensed to fly a passenger needs to realize that the fear felt by a passenger/student is real and serious. basically the fear of death.

i consider it criminal to take advantage of this fear.

perhaps there are places where pilots behave this badly, i'm glad i've not encountered such a community.

you cannot learn through fear and intimidation. you can build confidence through experience and knowledge and incrementally increase your boundries.
ka7eej
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:54 pm
Location: Taylor, Az
Contact:

Post by ka7eej »

To anyone looking for a good flight school I would like to let you know about the great experiencies I have had at Falcon Executive Aviation in Mesa, Az. I have received about 50 hours of ground school and dual there and have always been treated with respect and professionalism. On the few days I wanted to cut it short, we did. When I wanted to just do touch and go's we did. They tailored the training to what I wanted while still instructing me on all the things I needed to know. If you go there you will need no tape or have to worry about being too cold (the weather this time of year is great In Phoenix) See Jason Bullard or Matt Miller. Both great guys and Matt is a Sport Pilot DPE....I payed as I went, never had to pay any amounts down, never had any perssure and they always wanted to insure that I had a great experience..
Owner of N3081X (Cover Girl) A Beautiful Allegro 2000 as seen on the cover and inside of several magazines!!
JerryG
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:25 pm
Location: Sarasta FL

Flight Instruction

Post by JerryG »

I too can recommend an aviation training center. For great instruction try Lockwood Aviation at the Sebring Regional Airport in Sebring, FL. Florida weather is "usually" pretty good for flight training. Lockwood Aviation is a top notch school ... very professional ... no up front money ... pay as you go. They train Sport Pilots, Private Pilots, Instruments, CFI's and more.

Wherever one chooses for training ... take your time, do your homework and investigate. Ask for references, check with EAA, AOPA and the National Association of Flight Instructors. Good Luck!
"Time, be careful how you spend it, cause it isn't going to last".
apollonorthamerica
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:51 pm
Location: Zephyrhills, Florida, USA

Come visit us on a weekend

Post by apollonorthamerica »

Hi Mike,
This is almost unbelievable. Darn!
If you are still wanting to take lessons come see us at Zephyrhills airport (KZPH) one weekend to get an intro flight. Phil is our fixed wing instructor. Call him.
Check
http://www.tampabayaerosport.com
Best
Abid
MikeB wrote:Jerry, I'm sorry you've had such an experience. I hate to sound cold but that is very very common. Even Rusty Sachs from the Nat'l Assn of Flight Instructors, and someone from the Tampa FSDO, told me they hear of this happening all the time. it is important to check on a school's policies regarding prepayment and refunds. I had signed up for one particular school and found out they required me to keep $1500 on account, and they charge a $1300 "cancellation fee". Therefore I put my check book back in my pocket, turned around and walked out. There are many schools that let you pay as you go.
In a way, a flight school not refunding money sounds like a ripoff. But then when you think of, say, community colleges and other such institutions, they too do not refund all your money, if any at all.
However, in no way am I implying that your situation was your own fault. It certainly wasn't! You were an innocent victim!
While we're on the subject of bad CFI's...I did an intro flight in December after which I signed up for a lesson the next day. I already had gotten my Medical because I wanted to be sure my vision would pass. During this first actual lesson, as soon as we took off and climbed out I felt airsick and was nervous so I asked the CFI to land. (I would have been willing to pay for the full hour.) But instead he refused to land! He spent the next 40 minutes flying around - most of the time with neither of us having our hands on the controls - and he was SCREAMING at me, terrorizing me, trying to force me to take the controls. I refused. He told me he was taking me to Gainesville and that HIS instructor had kicked HIS butt. He then told me if I don't "man up" and take the controls he will make sure I never get to fly anywhere with anyone ever. Eventually we landed. By this point I refused to pay for the lesson because screaming abusively at a student and holding him against his will is not "instruction". I had rented the plane for the purpose of being instructed how to fly it. When he refused to land, he stole the plane from me as far as I'm concerned. Later the school owner expected me to pay for the full lesson plus some "ground school". I offered to pay for 30 minutes of the plane rental and 30 minutes of the instructor's time, which he accepted. He would not listen to my side of the story. He kept saying he had already talked to the instructor. He also kept admitting, "Well I wasn't there so I don't know." He then banned me from the property (not that I intend to return) saying, in front of an employee, that the reason for me being banned is "because you are mentally unstable". Of course I immediately wrote to the FAA and the FSDO and told them all about this, which they investigated. Meanwhile the school stole my medical certificate and sent it to an AME in College Park GA with letters falsely stating that I had "surrendered" it to them and that I told them I did not want to fly anymore. All this time I'd been training at another school and have more than 10 hours but did not know where my certificate was until someone from the Orlando FSDO found out as he was investigating the complaint I had sent to the FAA. So now I've filed a complaint against the school for falsifying reports to the FAA and for stealing my medical certificate. I spoke to someone at this AME's office and she was shocked to find out they had received my certificate under false pretenses and that I've been flying all this time elsewhere.
My point in posting this is to show that there are all kinds of bad CFI's out there, and all kinds of bad schools. Be sure to check any school and any CFI out thoroughly. The AOPA and other such organizations have helpful guidelines for selecting a school or instructor. Even then, some schools have sneaky ways of doing things, knowing how to do them without getting in trouble from the FAA. My advice is, only go to a school that will let you pay as you go.
Also, don't let your bad experience stop you from pursuing your goal of flying.
User avatar
MikeB
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida area

Post by MikeB »

Hi Abid. Sorry for not responding sooner, I haven't been online. I think I met you at the expo...or else other people from Tampa Aerosport. I did talk to Phil a few weeks ago on the phone. Just before the expo I started training in the Liberty XL2 in Lakeland. It's a fun plane to fly. I will be getting back to Phil eventually though. Thanks.
BOMOD
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:58 pm
Location: Sutter Creek / Sacramento, CA

Post by BOMOD »

The pay in advance situation is a very typical one in the home construction world too!

- Sub or contractor wants a large or full payment in advance

- some, all or none of the work gets done

- I can guarantee that any work done by this type of person will be sub-standard because he obviously has to put his pocketbook ahead of you the customer

- this person told you that he was living hand to mouth and had no intention of holding on to your money until the work/training was performed to your satisfaction (that can be the only reason for that kind of payment in advance)

- this type of person tends to arrange a repayment schedule that sounds good but didn't he already tell you that he could not perform as agreed?

In California, there is small claims court up to about $10,000. Even thou the original deal started quite a while ago, I would hope that the most recent time that you reached an agreement or got a payment would allow you to go after him.

I went through all this will building my "dream" house and learned very quickly to RUN from this type of person.
________
vaporizer shop
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