I have a vision of being the premier LSA training company in the nation with training centers all over the country.
This may seem like a goofy thing to post but I have given this a lot of thought and I think a couple of good people and possibly some investors could really put together a great company. If anyone is interested, let me know. In fact, if you think I am crazy, you can let me know that as well.
I am going to be somewhat reserved about my ideas as I don't care to give them away but I imagine I am not the only person to think of this. Maybe you have a small school that you want to grow. I would entertain joining your operation and employing my ideas for national growth. Anyone interested?
If I have any serious replies, I will give my phone number etc. and we can talk.
Thanks
Dano
Anyone interested in starting a big school?
Moderator: drseti
Remember the old saying: If you want to make a small fortune in aviation, start with a large one!
I think you will find that insurance is probably the biggest impediment in implementing this strategy. Think about it: insuring a bunch of expensive airplanes being flown by people with very little experience!
Another problem right now is trying to find flight instructors. Regional airlines are hurting so bad for pilots that they'll take anyone with the minimum qualifications and a pulse! American Eagle recently lowered their minimuns to 500 hours total time and 100 multi-engine.
However, I have a "national flight school" concept that I think would work. PM me if you would like to hear about it.
I think you will find that insurance is probably the biggest impediment in implementing this strategy. Think about it: insuring a bunch of expensive airplanes being flown by people with very little experience!
Another problem right now is trying to find flight instructors. Regional airlines are hurting so bad for pilots that they'll take anyone with the minimum qualifications and a pulse! American Eagle recently lowered their minimuns to 500 hours total time and 100 multi-engine.
However, I have a "national flight school" concept that I think would work. PM me if you would like to hear about it.
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CharlieTango
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:04 am
- Location: Mammoth Lakes, California
Dano,
in no cal flight instructors might not be too hard to find, you might have to give them a lot of freedom.
another large flight school / large dealership in no cal has demonstrated that the instructors to an extent determine the direction of the company.
big LSA flight schools find that the instructors lean towards the easier to fly designs.
to be in sync with LSA demands you will need expensive, delicate aircraft and the only way to justify that will be to sell them as well. now you will be influenced by the profit margins available from one design vs another.
there is probably only an opportunity if you can find financiers that are going to participate due to their love of light sport aviation. from a pure business perspective the risks outweigh the opportunities for the investor.
in no cal flight instructors might not be too hard to find, you might have to give them a lot of freedom.
another large flight school / large dealership in no cal has demonstrated that the instructors to an extent determine the direction of the company.
big LSA flight schools find that the instructors lean towards the easier to fly designs.
to be in sync with LSA demands you will need expensive, delicate aircraft and the only way to justify that will be to sell them as well. now you will be influenced by the profit margins available from one design vs another.
there is probably only an opportunity if you can find financiers that are going to participate due to their love of light sport aviation. from a pure business perspective the risks outweigh the opportunities for the investor.
I've always liked the Sport pilot in two weeks concept. But it's hard to get people to give you their entire two weeks vacation for the year.
I think the secret is to have a sport pilot school at a resort, a tropical resort where the entire family can go with things to do. Beaches, Snorkling, Horseback riding...etc. Maybe even close to a day cruise and/or Casino.
Here is the scenario, you're 50 years old with a wife and daughter 20 and son 13. You get two weeks vacation a year, but you have always wanted to be a pilot. The family is never gonna let you get use your two weeks to go to some far away intensive flight training unless there is something in it for them. Perhaps your daughter is also interested in flying.
Your son loves to play on the beach and swim and your wife likes to shop and gamble.
So for vacation you go to this resort place that has all this stuff. You and the daughter take flying lessons while wife plays blackjack and your son gets a tan, and wastes $20 at the arcade.
At night you all have dinner together. Flight training also has a few scheduled days or day parts off, so you can spend time together.
You and your daughter get your SP airplane and everyone is happy.
Five years later you go back, your son gets his SP and you get your private. Your daughter is married and living somewhere else, so your wife sends her a post card.
________
extreme vaporizer
I think the secret is to have a sport pilot school at a resort, a tropical resort where the entire family can go with things to do. Beaches, Snorkling, Horseback riding...etc. Maybe even close to a day cruise and/or Casino.
Here is the scenario, you're 50 years old with a wife and daughter 20 and son 13. You get two weeks vacation a year, but you have always wanted to be a pilot. The family is never gonna let you get use your two weeks to go to some far away intensive flight training unless there is something in it for them. Perhaps your daughter is also interested in flying.
Your son loves to play on the beach and swim and your wife likes to shop and gamble.
So for vacation you go to this resort place that has all this stuff. You and the daughter take flying lessons while wife plays blackjack and your son gets a tan, and wastes $20 at the arcade.
At night you all have dinner together. Flight training also has a few scheduled days or day parts off, so you can spend time together.
You and your daughter get your SP airplane and everyone is happy.
Five years later you go back, your son gets his SP and you get your private. Your daughter is married and living somewhere else, so your wife sends her a post card.
________
extreme vaporizer
Last edited by SP_Laser on Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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westwindsportstar
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:22 am
Two words:westwindsportstar wrote:Sounds exciting, we are currently doing something along the lines of what SP_Laser is talking about, although not in a tropical area.However with the right location it could be a pretty nice concept, I used to work in Hawaii at an operation doing accelerated courses and it was pretty successful.
Marathon Airport
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&g ... =addr&om=1
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juggalos
Last edited by SP_Laser on Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The limiting factor is not insurance, not interest in flying, but purchase capitol. Can you afford to buy enough planes? If not, can you find enough leasebacks... We currently have the largest fleet of LSA for rent and are expanding that. Given the current environment with LSAs and the Banks, I think it would be hard to find significant financing unless you have sound investors willing to personally guarantee or purchase planes out right.
With that said, I would move to Marathon in a second. Been there a few times and love it down there.
With that said, I would move to Marathon in a second. Been there a few times and love it down there.
In about 15 years I think I'll be ready for early retirement as a LSA flight instructor at Marathon Airport...so if you build it, I will come.tadel001 wrote:The limiting factor is not insurance, not interest in flying, but purchase capitol. Can you afford to buy enough planes? If not, can you find enough leasebacks... We currently have the largest fleet of LSA for rent and are expanding that. Given the current environment with LSAs and the Banks, I think it would be hard to find significant financing unless you have sound investors willing to personally guarantee or purchase planes out right.
With that said, I would move to Marathon in a second. Been there a few times and love it down there.
I agree about the lease back thing, has anyone thought of offering the lease back holders free Sport Pilot instruction in their aircraft if they agree to leaseback for x number of years? Or maybe they get 1 hour of your time for every 4 hours of other students?
"Buy the plane, Lease it back, Fly it when you want (it's your plane), and I'll teach you to fly it (So long as I'm teaching other students). "
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Ford Country Squire history
Last edited by SP_Laser on Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I would like to be involved but I am broke and not a sport pilot yet so I am probably of no value to you.
I was telling my wife I would like to buy a plane and trying to justify it by telling her I could make money with a lease-back arrangement. How long would it take to make back the money you paid for the plane?
I was telling my wife I would like to buy a plane and trying to justify it by telling her I could make money with a lease-back arrangement. How long would it take to make back the money you paid for the plane?
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CharlieTango
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:04 am
- Location: Mammoth Lakes, California
The school where I'm taking lessons charges $100/hr wet for the plane. Wet means about 4gph of autogas, so I'm guessing $80 or more per hour goes to the lease back person.letsfly wrote:I would like to be involved but I am broke and not a sport pilot yet so I am probably of no value to you.
I was telling my wife I would like to buy a plane and trying to justify it by telling her I could make money with a lease-back arrangement. How long would it take to make back the money you paid for the plane?
If you can rent a $100,000 plane for $80 /hr. I guess is just depends on how many hours you get. If you get 1 hr per day, that would work pretty well. But I doubt people actually get that. I've seen some planes get used almost every day, others just sit there. Are you willing to rent it out for overnights?
Maybe some people would be happy if the lease back pays for the insurance and the hangar.
The good news is, the resale market is not terrible, so if you buy a $100,000 airplane and it doesn't work out, maybe you have to sell it at a $10,000 loss. (could be worse)
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home made vaporizer
Last edited by SP_Laser on Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Here is my thinking on a leaseback. If I owned a plane that I want to lease to a school, I am going to set a minimum number of hours for that plane to be flown. I am not going to place my airplane with a school that is only flying 10 hours per month. I am going to want an average of at least 50 hours per month. If I am leasing this thing out for 50 hours at $40 per hour, that is $2000 per month. The owner is responsible for overhaul costs, mandatory AD's, upgrades, and property taxes. The school pays for fuel, maint., hanger, insurance etc.
This is only an example and I haven't yet found any averages on what leasebacks go for but I know for a fact that this is how it works in the helicopter training world which is a very expensive business. I know that I can lease a helicopter (2 place R22) for $85 per hour with the same scenario. Anyhow, $2000 per month would be plenty of money to cover the cost of ownership and actually create a positive cash flow. This may be way off base but this is how I see this working.
One last point. I realize it is a risk for a person to buy and plan on leasing out but I would make sure that I am working with a successful school. In order to be a successful school, you have to keep the planes in the air and the revenue coming in. The problem with flight schools is that they rarely do anything creative to generate new business and often take the business they have for granted. I would definitely focus on fulfilling my lease obligations so it is attractive to other potential owners if my business expands.
Thanks for all of the replies.
Dano
This is only an example and I haven't yet found any averages on what leasebacks go for but I know for a fact that this is how it works in the helicopter training world which is a very expensive business. I know that I can lease a helicopter (2 place R22) for $85 per hour with the same scenario. Anyhow, $2000 per month would be plenty of money to cover the cost of ownership and actually create a positive cash flow. This may be way off base but this is how I see this working.
One last point. I realize it is a risk for a person to buy and plan on leasing out but I would make sure that I am working with a successful school. In order to be a successful school, you have to keep the planes in the air and the revenue coming in. The problem with flight schools is that they rarely do anything creative to generate new business and often take the business they have for granted. I would definitely focus on fulfilling my lease obligations so it is attractive to other potential owners if my business expands.
Thanks for all of the replies.
Dano
SP_Laser
I like the idea of offering free instruction as part of the package for someone who wants to lease a plane. I would certainly try to do something like that or at least teach them at cost or something.
I like the idea of offering free instruction as part of the package for someone who wants to lease a plane. I would certainly try to do something like that or at least teach them at cost or something.
SP_Laser wrote:In about 15 years I think I'll be ready for early retirement as a LSA flight instructor at Marathon Airport...so if you build it, I will come.tadel001 wrote:The limiting factor is not insurance, not interest in flying, but purchase capitol. Can you afford to buy enough planes? If not, can you find enough leasebacks... We currently have the largest fleet of LSA for rent and are expanding that. Given the current environment with LSAs and the Banks, I think it would be hard to find significant financing unless you have sound investors willing to personally guarantee or purchase planes out right.
With that said, I would move to Marathon in a second. Been there a few times and love it down there.
I agree about the lease back thing, has anyone thought of offering the lease back holders free Sport Pilot instruction in their aircraft if they agree to leaseback for x number of years? Or maybe they get 1 hour of your time for every 4 hours of other students?
"Buy the plane, Lease it back, Fly it when you want (it's your plane), and I'll teach you to fly it (So long as I'm teaching other students). "
LSA Flight School
Discussions like this one always give me hope! You've heard me whine about this before, but that's what blogs are for, right?
Cook County (Chicago) has a population of about 5.5 million - much more if you consider the immediate collar counties. Flight schools - over a dozen. LSA flight schools - NONE. The closest one - indeed, the only one in Illinois - is about 65 miles from downtown Chicago, a prohibitive commute in metro traffic.
So I'm sitting here with 29 GA hours, a LSA student pilot certificate and a high passing grade on the LSA written and no place to fly, wondering if any of these GA schools are going to bite the bullet and start teaching light sport. Oh, I know all the reasons - expensive new planes, insurance, ignorance of the light sport rules, etc., but I gotta think that there are enough prospective students like me in that 5.5 million people to justify one of these biggger schools ( some have 10-20 planes!) trading one in on a used Sportstar or Thorpe T211.
Anyway, it's nice to know that folks like you are out there trying to figure out ways to make this thing happen. Thanks!
Cook County (Chicago) has a population of about 5.5 million - much more if you consider the immediate collar counties. Flight schools - over a dozen. LSA flight schools - NONE. The closest one - indeed, the only one in Illinois - is about 65 miles from downtown Chicago, a prohibitive commute in metro traffic.
So I'm sitting here with 29 GA hours, a LSA student pilot certificate and a high passing grade on the LSA written and no place to fly, wondering if any of these GA schools are going to bite the bullet and start teaching light sport. Oh, I know all the reasons - expensive new planes, insurance, ignorance of the light sport rules, etc., but I gotta think that there are enough prospective students like me in that 5.5 million people to justify one of these biggger schools ( some have 10-20 planes!) trading one in on a used Sportstar or Thorpe T211.
Anyway, it's nice to know that folks like you are out there trying to figure out ways to make this thing happen. Thanks!