lessons?

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:48 am

Your CFI needs at least 5 hours within a light sport plane within the same set as yours before he can legally instruct you per legal interpretation of Larry Clymer head of AFS 610. Probably the best thing to do is let him fly that time off in your Allegro.

Helen

ka7eej · Post by **ka7eej** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:04 pm

Your CFI needs at least 5 hours within a light sport plane within the same set as yours before he can legally instruct you per legal interpretation of Larry Clymer head of AFS 610.

Helen, Thanks for your reply... Would you please tell me where I can see the legal interpretation of Larry Clymer?

In reading the FAR Subpart K --Flight Instructors with a Sport Pilor Rating, you find section 61.415 It states "If you hold a flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating, you are subject to the following limits:"
THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE WHERE YOU FIND THE 5 HOURS IN MAKE AND MODEL RULE. IT IS LETTER (e)..
I do not believe I said that my CFI was instructing under a sport pilot CFI rating. He is in fact a Private Pilot CFI with at least single engine land rating.. My Allegro is a single engine land airplane and my instructor is not instructing with a sport pilot rating (IE he has a 3 class medical and is not using his drivers licence for a medical).. My unserstanding is this:
A Priviate Pilot CFI needs category and class rating..{61.195} and a Sport Pilot CFI needs make and model{61.415 (e)}

Also on the EAA website this information is listed.....

What does an existing CFI (under subpart H) need to do to instruct sport pilot students?
Simply stated, a current CFI may train sport pilot candidates, within the category/class listed on the CFI's certificate, without showing further proficiency. Obviously, you will need to become familiar with the sport pilot rules under 61 subpart J. EAA has a 19 page PDF file of the rule you can download or view.

Again, please show me where I am wrong as I want my time training with this CFI to count....

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:40 pm

You are correct that is the only place it is listed in the regs, and your interpretation is also EAA's. Unfortunately, I asked Larry this and many other questions about full CFIs doing sport pilot instruction in person at OSH this summer and did not get such in writing. Further complicating matters, a new person has just taken over AFS610 and I do not know if he has changed this interpretation. Probably best if you call and ask: 405-954-6400 Until I hear otherwise, I am assuming the new person has not changed Larry's interpretations and am holding our CFIs to Larry's interpretations which include the 5 hours in set.

One other thing. If you have not already, you should check with your insurance company as to their minimums for your CFI. Many require a certain number of hours in type for a CFI giving instruction in such.

Helen

CTflyer · Post by **CTflyer** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:55 pm

Not to put too fine a point on it ...

1. If someone receives instruction, a solo signoff, and a signoff to take the checkride, from a cfi who isn't "legally" (per FAA) qualified to do these things for a sport pilot, where does that leave the student? Just a hearty chuckle and a wink? Or totally disqualified?

2. Where does that put the student (and eventually the pilot) regarding insurance coverage during pre-solo, post-solo, and post-checkride?

3. If the student passes the checkride and is given a temp certificate by a qualified DE, but the previous instruction, etc. was not completely "legal" - what's the status of the certificate?

This is getting *very* interesting.

Tom

ka7eej · Post by **ka7eej** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:03 pm

You are correct that is the only place it is listed in the regs, and your interpretation is also EAA's. Unfortunately, I asked Larry this and many other questions about full CFIs doing sport pilot instruction in person at OSH this summer and did not get such in writing

Helen, Thank you again for your input... You may be the only person that has had the privilege of hearing his interpretation. I'll stick with what is in writing and what EAA thinks as well.... Thanks again for the insurance warning but I am OK there as well...I wonder if you misunderstood him or he misunderstood you, and he thought you were talking about Sport Pilot CFI's??.....Anyway it seems clear the way it is written.

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:47 pm

No I was pretty clear and even rephrased and reasked when he gave me that answer. A lot of his interpretations about what a full CFI could do when training in sport planes were more liberal than those the EAA had previously given me so I figured best not to argue.

tadel001 · Post by **tadel001** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:32 pm

CT Flyer, most of your questions have already been answered by the various ALJs. The short answer is, "it depends." Did the student know? For example, a CFI doesn't have a current BFR, gives some primary instructions, does that count? Yes but if the student knew, he could be charged with a few other nasty violations. The biggest, and I MEAN BIGGEST, issue the FAA has is honesty! We are a self policed industry. As such, dishonesty is punished severally.

tadel001 · Post by **tadel001** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:31 pm

Helen is right about the 5 hours in the set. Actually, the CFI Renewal courses include this in their materials as requirements for a CFI to instruct. A CFI cannot step right into an LSA without 5 hours in that set and give instruction.

ka7eej · Post by **ka7eej** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:53 pm

Well after speaking to the AFS 610 office It seems that I am taking flight instruction from my Subpart H CFI legally...There is nothing that says (at this point) that I am a Sport pilot student. If I wanted to get my 3rd class I could count all my hours in my LSA towards a Private Pilots certificate. He can instruct me until I have the required hours, skills, training to pass the practical test. O darn, I did not get my 3rd class medical, so I guess I'll just test in an LSA and get my Sport Pilot Certificate...... It's great that your schools CFI's can (and should)get lots of hours in a set/make/model before training students but it is not required by the FAA as of today conversation in my opnion. I took over 50 hours with a CFI that had over 250 hours in my make and model. He and I felt that I was not quite ready to test. He is 3.5 hours driving time away from where I live. I needed to move my plane and finish up at my home airport with the local CFI. Every situation is different and the FAA confirmed that I am legal.... Thanks again for the input, your interpretion fits well to your situation buy not mine.

rab23us · Post by **rab23us** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:01 pm

ka7eej wrote:Well after speaking to the AFS 610 office It seems that I am taking flight instruction from my Subpart H CFI legally...There is nothing that says (at this point) that I am a Sport pilot student. If I wanted to get my 3rd class I could count all my hours in my LSA towards a Private Pilots certificate. He can instruct me until I have the required hours, skills, training to pass the practical test. O darn, I did not get my 3rd class medical, so I guess I'll just test in an LSA and get my Sport Pilot Certificate...... It's great that your schools CFI's can (and should)get lots of hours in a set/make/model before training students but it is not required by the FAA as of today conversation in my opnion. I took over 50 hours with a CFI that had over 250 hours in my make and model. He and I felt that I was not quite ready to test. He is 3.5 hours driving time away from where I live. I needed to move my plane and finish up at my home airport with the local CFI. Every situation is different and the FAA confirmed that I am legal.... Thanks again for the input, your interpretion fits well to your situation buy not mine.

That's great to hear I am hoping that I have misread the part I bolded on your post...You do hold a student cert for SP, every place that is within reasonable driving distance to me for an accelerated course of SP tells me that I have to get a student cert before I can start flying.

Most of the places that I have checked into as well when it comes to the accelerated programs means doing 95% of the ground school at home which is ok with me.

I myself am still hoping for my local airport to get on board with the SP. With a full time job and three kids makes it difficult to get anything done.

Otherwise I may just look into some of the florida SP schools and take a vacation there one of these years to get this done. Last time I had any flight training was when I was attending IERW at Ft. Rucker. then the goverment ran out of money (but that's an issue for another day).

Take care and fly safe.

Ron