Instuctor interview

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Warmi
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Re: Instuctor interview

Post by Warmi »

TimTaylor wrote:...

From my perspective, the main problem is flying is just too expensive for most people. Fewer and fewer people are able to purchase new standard certificated aircraft and the inventory of used standard certificated aircraft is getting older and smaller.
....
.
So why do you think this is the case and why , for instance other industries like automotive , marine etc somehow have managed to maintain prices affordable to just about everyone while still maintaining technological cutting edge?

Why you think would happen to the automotive industry if they had to go thru some kind of certification process for every dial, screw and any new component they wanted to introduce to the market while spending tens of millions of dollars waiting for years to get it approved ?
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois
TimTaylor
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Re: Instuctor interview

Post by TimTaylor »

I'm not saying there is no room for improvement, but airplanes are not cars. I'm not going to get into a political discussion, but it has more to do with income than manufacturing cost, IMHO.

When people can't afford to educate their kids and pay their bills, they can't afford to buy airplanes at any price. Most can't afford to rent a 50 year old Cessna or Piper.
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Warmi
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Re: Instuctor interview

Post by Warmi »

TimTaylor wrote:I'm not saying there is no room for improvement, but airplanes are not cars. I'm not going to get into a political discussion, but it has more to do with income than manufacturing cost, IMHO.

When people can't afford to educate their kids and pay their bills, they can't afford to buy airplanes at any price.
As I said, other similar industries are not really suffering so it has nothing to do with incomes ,people are buying high end electronics, high end cars and other luxury items in record numbers - a $ 400 000 priced dollar plane , which is what a basic new GA plane costs, has nothing to do with average incomes being a bit higher or a bit lower ...
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TimTaylor
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Re: Instuctor interview

Post by TimTaylor »

Warmi wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:I'm not saying there is no room for improvement, but airplanes are not cars. I'm not going to get into a political discussion, but it has more to do with income than manufacturing cost, IMHO.

When people can't afford to educate their kids and pay their bills, they can't afford to buy airplanes at any price.
As I said, other similar industries are not really suffering so it has nothing to do with incomes ,people are buying high end electronics, high end cars and other luxury items in record numbers - a $ 400 000 priced dollar plane , which is what a basic new GA plane costs, has nothing to do with average incomes being a bit higher or a bit lower ...
It's not about AVERAGE incomes. I'm done with this. It's a difference in political philosophy.
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drseti
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Re: Instuctor interview

Post by drseti »

Warmi wrote:why , for instance other industries like automotive , marine etc somehow have managed to maintain prices affordable to just about everyone while still maintaining technological cutting edge?
I think economies of scale (or lack thereof) play a role here. An aircraft manufacturer who cranks out 100 planes a year is considered successful. If Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler had those kinds of numbers, can you imagine what kind of shape Detroit would be in? (Oh, wait, it is in that kind of shape...)
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Bam

Post by bryancobb »

Lemme see if'n I can knock this conversation back to the middle of the road and maybe we can smile at each other.

Aviation CAN be enjoyed on a budget. Buy a Tomahawk for $18k and enjoy 100MPH cruising. Buy and restore an old Taylorcraft, Cub, or Champ and for well below $20k, become an excellent tail-dragger pilot. I have TWO friends that have built 200MPH RV's for well under $70k. They get there FAST!

I even bought an airworthy Brantly B-2B helicopter for $25k. I fixed it up, spending $12k on parts and 1000 hours of labor. I flew it 300 hours over 7 years and sold it for $55,000.
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Bryan Cobb
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Re: Bam

Post by drseti »

bryancobb wrote:I even bought an airworthy Brantly B-2B helicopter for $25k. I fixed it up, spending $12k on parts and 1000 hours of labor. I flew it 300 hours over 7 years and sold it for $55,000.
Let's see, now... divide your $18,000 profit by your 1000 hours of labor, and that means you're making $18 an hour. Not bad! That's 2 1/2 times my hourly return for running a flight school.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
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bryancobb
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Re: Bam

Post by bryancobb »

drseti wrote:
bryancobb wrote:I even bought an airworthy Brantly B-2B helicopter for $25k. I fixed it up, spending $12k on parts and 1000 hours of labor. I flew it 300 hours over 7 years and sold it for $55,000.
Let's see, now... divide your $18,000 profit by your 1000 hours of labor, and that means you're making $18 an hour. Not bad! That's 2 1/2 times my hourly return for running a flight school.
Yes,

But that's not how I view it. I view it as getting 300 hours of helicopter flight time and hundreds of "atta-boys" FREE. My hours of labor were my hobby. When I built and flew Radio-Control for 30 years, I never tried to think of it as a financial endeavor. If golfers looked at their hours on the links like you view your flight school, no one would play. :)
Bryan Cobb
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bryancobb
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Kid and PPL

Post by bryancobb »

In the next 2 years,

I will be buying a Piper Tomahawk for between $15k and $25k and getting my daughter's Private License in it. After her checkride on her 17th birthday, my goal will be to sell it for the same amount I paid, including taxes. I will gamble and fly it without insurance. I don't have deep pockets and would not be much of a target for a lawsuit. My entire net worth could be gobbled-up quickly by lawyer fees.

A free pilots license, except for cost of fuel, is possible. She is in Embry-Riddle's "Dual Enrollment" program at her high school and plans to go to GA Tech in Aerospace Engineering.
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Bryan Cobb
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Commercial Rotorcraft Helicopter
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Cartersville, Ga
[email protected]
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foresterpoole
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Re: Instuctor interview

Post by foresterpoole »

I stopped trying to quantify flying by a dollar amount or how many hours I have last night, no joke. I'm now going to start keeping track of the hours of smiles and enjoyment it gives me, inside and outside an airplane. As some have said, it's an expensive hobby, but life is short and I need to enjoy it and share it with others. Sure I will probably never own a plane, but hey I'm still flying and at the end of the day I can live with that. That is one awesome helicopter bryancobb!
Ed
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ShawnM
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Re: Bam

Post by ShawnM »

bryancobb wrote:I even bought an airworthy Brantly B-2B helicopter for $25k. I fixed it up, spending $12k on parts and 1000 hours of labor. I flew it 300 hours over 7 years and sold it for $55,000.
Oh, the beloved "snow cone". Nice restoration Bryan. I've seen a few nice snow cones in my helicopter days.
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ShawnM
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Re: Instuctor interview

Post by ShawnM »

foresterpoole wrote:I stopped trying to quantify flying by a dollar amount or how many hours I have last night, no joke. I'm now going to start keeping track of the hours of smiles and enjoyment it gives me, inside and outside an airplane. As some have said, it's an expensive hobby, but life is short and I need to enjoy it and share it with others. Sure I will probably never own a plane, but hey I'm still flying and at the end of the day I can live with that. That is one awesome helicopter bryancobb!
So true, the feeling of flying is what keeps us going, live in the moment and just do it.

I'll admit though the feeling of flying your own plane is....well....PRICELESS.

One can sit around and dwell on the monthly costs and give themselves a dozen reasons why they shouldn't or you can just go flying. :mrgreen:
HAPPYDAN
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Re: Instuctor interview

Post by HAPPYDAN »

Meanwhile, back to the Original Poster -
To Atrosa, here's a laugh for you. I retired from my second career at 62, and decided to fulfill a lifelong dream. Sport Pilot fit my bill just fine. I found a web site for a local school that promised $5,000 and 2 weeks to get that SPL. So I scheduled an appointment, made the trip (about 2 hours away), was on time and waited - for an hour for the CFI to show up. He made no excuse (strike 1). After chatting for a few minutes and discussing my goals, he says bluntly, "Why do you want to do this? You're retired with a good income, you should just play golf or collect stamps (strike 2)." So I dug in my heels, and the conversation shifted to when. Summer would be best, as the weather is more favorable then. To which he replied, "Oh, I can't do it then, I'm on call for fire suppression duties (strike 3)." Obviously, attitudes abound. But somewhere out there, fliers are getting it done, so keep at it and Best of Luck!
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Re: Instuctor interview

Post by drseti »

Who here agrees that flight instructors who constantly make excuses not to fly with you should have their CFI revoked? :mrgreen:
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
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Re: Bam

Post by Wm.Ince »

bryancobb wrote:
drseti wrote:
bryancobb wrote:I even bought an airworthy Brantly B-2B helicopter for $25k. I fixed it up, spending $12k on parts and 1000 hours of labor. I flew it 300 hours over 7 years and sold it for $55,000.
Let's see, now... divide your $18,000 profit by your 1000 hours of labor, and that means you're making $18 an hour. Not bad! That's 2 1/2 times my hourly return for running a flight school.
Yes,

But that's not how I view it. I view it as getting 300 hours of helicopter flight time and hundreds of "atta-boys" FREE. My hours of labor were my hobby. When I built and flew Radio-Control for 30 years, I never tried to think of it as a financial endeavor. If golfers looked at their hours on the links like you view your flight school, no one would play. :)
Nice rebuttal, Bryan! :D
And by the way, that is quite the machine.
Isn’t there one at the US Army Aviation Museum, Ft. Rucker, Alabama?
Bill Ince
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator
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