Experimental for training?

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Atrosa
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Experimental for training?

Postby Atrosa » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:40 am

This is the first in my line of dumb questions from the new guy.....

I tried to look it up myself under FAR 61.51 and could not find reference to it, so here is my question:

Can I use an exerimental aircraft (LSA) to get my hours towards my sport pilot license?

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drseti
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Re: Experimental for training?

Postby drseti » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:20 am

You can certainly use an experimental aircraft (either ELSA or E-AB) to earn your SP rating, as long as it conforms to the restrictions that define LSA in FAR 1.1. At this point, experimentals can't be rented out by flight schools, and CFIs can't use them to provide instruction for hire. There is an NPRM to change that, but the process is slow, so don't hold your breath.

At the moment, one of my students owns an E-AB Zenith CH601 in which he is finishing up his training, and another just acquired a KitFox to which he will be transitioning shortly - so yes, it's possible.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

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drseti
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Re: Experimental for training?

Postby drseti » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:23 am

I should add that not all CFIs will agree to train in an experimental, and not all DPEs will give checkrides in them. So, shop around for an instructor and an examiner before you shop for an airplane!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

rsteele
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Re: Experimental for training?

Postby rsteele » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:14 am

drseti wrote:You can certainly use an experimental aircraft (either ELSA or E-AB) to earn your SP rating, as long as it conforms to the restrictions that define LSA in FAR 1.1. At this point, experimentals can't be rented out by flight schools, and CFIs can't use them to provide instruction for hire. There is an NPRM to change that, but the process is slow, so don't hold your breath.

At the moment, one of my students owns an E-AB Zenith CH601 in which he is finishing up his training, and another just acquired a KitFox to which he will be transitioning shortly - so yes, it's possible.


I may be wrong, but I think the statement "CFIs can't use them to provide instruction for hire" is a bit misleading. It sounds like a CFI can't charge for instruction in an experimental. Isn't there is an exception if the plane is owned by the student, so one can hire a CFI to instruct in one's own experimental? What if the student borrows an experimental from a friend? Can an instructor be hired for that use?

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drseti
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Re: Experimental for training?

Postby drseti » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:26 am

You're correct that a CFI can charge for instruction in an experimental owned by the student. That's what I'm doing with the two students I mentioned. A borrowed aircraft is a gray area. If the owner is being compensated in any way for the student's use of the airplane (such as the student paying for fuel, oil, hangar, insurance, or maintenance), that could possibly be interpreted as rental, which is not permitted.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

rcpilot
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Location: Mastic, NY

Re: Experimental for training?

Postby rcpilot » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:53 pm

drseti wrote:I should add that not all CFIs will agree to train in an experimental, and not all DPEs will give checkrides in them. So, shop around for an instructor and an examiner before you shop for an airplane!


I can vouch that not all DPEs will give checkrides. That's what happened to me the first time my instructor set me up. When the DPE found out I had an E-AB Zenith 601 he balked.

rcpilot
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Re: Experimental for training?

Postby rcpilot » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:58 pm

drseti wrote:......At the moment, one of my students owns an E-AB Zenith CH601 in which he is finishing up his training, and another just acquired a KitFox to which he will be transitioning shortly - so yes, it's possible.


Glad to see I wasn't the only one to do that.

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drseti
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Re: Experimental for training?

Postby drseti » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:18 pm

rcpilot wrote:I can vouch that not all DPEs will give checkrides. That's what happened to me the first time my instructor set me up. When the DPE found out I had an E-AB Zenith 601 he balked.


Shameless plug: I'm not one of those DPEs who balks at experimentals. :D
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

Atrosa
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Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: Experimental for training?

Postby Atrosa » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:32 pm

Paul I wish you were closer I'd study under you in a heartbeat. I have read many of your posts already and your responses are that of a teacher and a coach. My day job is an accountant and my weekend /fun gig is a firearms instructor. the latter is plagued with instructors who teach to show off their own skills which often puts off students.

-Tony

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ShawnM
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Re: Experimental for training?

Postby ShawnM » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:39 pm

I have a friend where I finished my training and we had the same instructor and DPE. He ownes a E-AB RV-12 and our instructor and the DPE didn’t balk at all. Both were happy to fly in his experimental RV-12. So as stated it depends of the person and their comfort level so be sure to ask the instructor first.

You’ll more than likely have to find an independent instructor to do this. If he/she works at a flight school the school may have their own policy and simply tell you no just to cover their a$$. :mrgreen:


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