Cert Advise

Sport aviation is growing rapidly. But the new sport pilot / light-sport aircraft rules are still a mystery to many flight schools and instructors. To locate a flight school offering sport pilot training and/or light-sport aircraft rentals, click on the "Flight School And Rental Finder" tab above. This is a great place to share ideas on learning to fly, flight schools, costs and anything else related to training.

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New2me
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Re: Cert Advise

Postby New2me » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:40 pm

Reading up on Gleim's site it appears my 1st move is to meet with an instructor and apply for a Sport or Private Cert. I will need to find comparison info on these to make a final decision. A chart with practical information like hours required to complete each and if the cost is different for each would be fantastic.

If going the Private route then get a Class 3 Medical done. If going Sport then Drivers License is adequate.
Take the written exam.
Begin taking lessons and work towards my practical exam which needs to be completed within 24 months of when I passed the written exam.

Does this sound about right?
Chris

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Re: Cert Advise

Postby New2me » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:51 pm

TimTaylor wrote:I just read that most single person powered parachutes can be flown as ultralight with no license. Two person powered parachutes are light sport and require a Sport Pilot license.


Yes most single seat PPG and UL Trikes fall under the FAR 103 rule so as they do not exceed the weight limits. Once you move into 2 seaters you loose the exemption because of weight and you are not allowed passengers under that rule.


On the subject of terminolgy:
Is it true that there is no such thing as a pilot license, only certificates?
Chris

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drseti
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Re: Cert Advise

Postby drseti » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:56 pm

New2me wrote:So do instructors carry a Commercial Cert. then?


They did until 2005. Up until then, all CFIs operated under FAR Part 61 Subpart H, and were required to be instrument-rated commercial pilots. When the Sport Pilot and LSA rules were created 13 years ago, they included the new FAR 61 Subpart K rules creating the Sport Pilot Instructor rating. These new CFIs were allowed to train only in LSAs, and only toward the Sport Pilot rating. They were not required to be either Commercial Pilots nor Instrument rated. At first, the hours spent training with a Subpart K CFI were usable only toward the SP rating. Recently, FAA relaxed that restriction, allowing some of those hours to count toward higher ratings as well. That is discussed in detail in another thread on this forum.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
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TimTaylor
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Re: Cert Advise

Postby TimTaylor » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:06 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote: I know little or nothing about powered parachute except I see there is a category of powered parachute under the Sport Pilot certificate. So, I assume you could get a Sport Pilot license flying a powered parachute. Later, you could train with a flight instructor and take a flight test with a second flight instructor to get a fixed wing endorsement on your Sport Pilot certificate. I don't know if there is a powered parachute that can be flown as ultralight with no pilot license or not. Maybe. And yes, most CFI's have a Commercial certificate. That is required to get paid. There is a Sport Pilot instructor certificate that I know nothing about.


Tim, a commercial pilot certificate is not required to get paid as a flight instructor, otherwise an instructor would not be able to charge for their services unless they held at least a second class medical. You should think of a commercial certificate as prerequisite level of experience required to become a flight instructor.

A sport pilot instructor only requires the minimum of a sport pilot certificate. They can also charge for flight instruction. They are charging for teaching not charging for flying.

You are correct.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

TimTaylor
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Re: Cert Advise

Postby TimTaylor » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:36 pm

New2me wrote:Reading up on Gleim's site it appears my 1st move is to meet with an instructor and apply for a Sport or Private Cert. I will need to find comparison info on these to make a final decision. A chart with practical information like hours required to complete each and if the cost is different for each would be fantastic.

If going the Private route then get a Class 3 Medical done. If going Sport then Drivers License is adequate.
Take the written exam.
Begin taking lessons and work towards my practical exam which needs to be completed within 24 months of when I passed the written exam.

Does this sound about right?

You don't have to do it all in that order. I would first decide what type aircraft you want to fly and find a flight school that has that type aircraft available for training and a CFI available. Next, I would take a few lessons to make sure you like it and it's something you want to pursue. If they have light sport aircraft as well as larger aircraft, you might want to fly both before you decide.

If you are flying a Cessna or Piper type aircraft, you will need to pass your FAA third class medical before you solo (usually around 10 hours). If you are flying an LSA (light sport aircraft), you don't need a medical.

While you are learning to fly, study for and take the appropriate written test for the Private or Sport Pilot certificate you decided to go for. Finish your training, go take the flight test, get your certificate.
Last edited by TimTaylor on Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

chicagorandy
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Re: Cert Advise

Postby chicagorandy » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:01 pm

I took my first ever flight in a small plane at Cushing - an Evektor Sportstar Light Sport - The FBO manager and flight school are top notch folks.

Warmi
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Re: Cert Advise

Postby Warmi » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:46 pm

My suggestion would be to go for the PP certificate - not much time and money saved with the SP cert and the hard stuff you have to learn , how to fly a plane, is essentially the same , but the private cert gives you a lot more options.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

New2me
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Re: Cert Advise

Postby New2me » Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:11 pm

Thank you guys for all the help/advise. I'm going to go for the PPL I believe.
Chris

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Half Fast
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Re: Cert Advise

Postby Half Fast » Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:59 pm

drseti wrote:
Recently, FAA relaxed that restriction, allowing some of those hours to count toward higher ratings as well. That is discussed in detail in another thread on this forum.


Paul, what hours of Sport training would not count? From the circular,

Therefore, the
FAA believes that all training received
as a sport pilot candidate is relative to
the aeronautical experience required for
a higher certificate. Accordingly, the
FAA is not going to limit the sport pilot
training that may be credited toward a
higher certificate to a prescriptive
number of hours
.


I realize that additional training is needed, but it seems that all sport training hours would count. What am I missing?
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drseti
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Re: Cert Advise

Postby drseti » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:45 pm

Half Fast wrote: but it seems that all sport training hours would count. What am I missing?


It would seem that way from the summary you cited, but the actual FAA Order apparently says otherwise. The original petition for proposed rulemaking (to which I was signatory) made the case that, in those Areas of Operation for which the performance standards are identical between the SP PTS and the PP ACS, there should be no distinction between skills taught under Part 61 Subpart H and Part 61 Subpart K. AFAIK, the final Order enacted that recommendation.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

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Half Fast
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Re: Cert Advise

Postby Half Fast » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:07 pm

drseti wrote:
Half Fast wrote: but it seems that all sport training hours would count. What am I missing?


It would seem that way from the summary you cited, but the actual FAA Order apparently says otherwise. The original petition for proposed rulemaking (to which I was signatory) made the case that, in those Areas of Operation for which the performance standards are identical between the SP PTS and the PP ACS, there should be no distinction between skills taught under Part 61 Subpart H and Part 61 Subpart K. AFAIK, the final Order enacted that recommendation.



So what hours don’t count?
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TimTaylor
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Re: Cert Advise

Postby TimTaylor » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:13 pm

Sounds like they all count. I don't think there is any training involved in getting a Sport Pilot certificate that would not apply to getting a Private PIlot certificate, so there is no reason they wouldn't all count. That said, if you get a Sport Pilot certificate in a powered parachute and now want a fixed wing Private, I would think none of them would count. IDK.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

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drseti
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Re: Cert Advise

Postby drseti » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:32 pm

TimTaylor wrote: I don't think there is any training involved in getting a Sport Pilot certificate that would not apply to getting a Private PIlot certificate,


The issue is not the tasks themselves, but rather the different performance standards for similar maneuvers between the PP ACS and the SP PTS. A couple of examples: one says stall recovery must be demonstrated following a full stall, the other says at the first indication of a stall. In the case of steep turns, one calls for a specific angle of bank, and the other says an overbanking tendency must be observed. These discrepancies will doubtless be resolved in a year or two, when the SP PTS gets replaced by a SP ACS. Until then, prepare for DPEs to not accept training in performance of those specific maneuvers taught by a CFIS as being acceptable when an SP continues on for a PP rating.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

TimTaylor
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Re: Cert Advise

Postby TimTaylor » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:21 pm

Another reason to go straight for Private Pilot from the get-go if you can pass the medical. Get all your training from a Subpart - H CFI.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

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drseti
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Re: Cert Advise

Postby drseti » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:15 am

You can get all your training from a Subpart H CFI even if you go for the Sport. This is just a case of caveat emptor.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US


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