Why we use checklists.....

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dstclair
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby dstclair » Mon May 21, 2018 9:35 am

One more possibility. My Bellanca Super Viking had three indicator lights for the landing gear. The lights were off if the gear was up, flashing green when transitioning, solid green if they were down and red if there was a problem. There was a test procedure as part of the preflight. On on particular flight, one of my green lights stayed on even though the gear went up. Cycling the gear made no difference. I flew by a tower and had them visually verify my landing gear then landed uneventfully. It could be possible the Pilatus had minor system malfunction.

Other planes may have this as well but the Bellanca had a quasi failsafe mode. You could set the switch to Auto and the gear would automatically extend when you got below 100 mph.
dave

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MrMorden
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby MrMorden » Mon May 21, 2018 9:46 am

Most puzzling gear up I know of was one I saw at Triple Tree (7000x400ft grass like a putting green) 3 years ago, a flight of 8 Cardinals was doing a rapid-fire group landing. The last guy landing was a Cardinal RG, he realized in the last 50ft that his gear was up. Rather than go around and make the group arrival less-than-perfect, He slapped the gear down and landed. He touched down before the gear was locked, and one of the mains folded up under him and the airplane slid to a stop sideways on its belly.

They dragged the airplane off to the side, where it sat beside the runway the entire four day fly-in to remind the pilot of his folly.
Andy Walker
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2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

Wm.Ince
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby Wm.Ince » Mon May 21, 2018 10:41 am

ShawnM wrote:Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right? Thankfully no one was injured in the Pilatus or the Mooney events, only some bruised egos I'm sure.

"There, but for the grace of God, go I."
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MrMorden
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby MrMorden » Mon May 21, 2018 12:42 pm

ShawnM wrote:Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right? Thankfully no one was injured in the Pilatus or the Mooney events, only some bruised egos I'm sure.


DISTRACTION.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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Scooper
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby Scooper » Mon May 21, 2018 1:11 pm

From the FAA ASIAS system, posted today:

IDENTIFICATION
Date: 19-MAY-18
Time: 17:10:00Z
Regis#: N83JR
Aircraft Make: PILATUS
Aircraft Model: PC 12 47E
Event Type: INCIDENT
Highest Injury: NONE
Aircraft Missing: No
Damage: UNKNOWN

LOCATION
City: ZEPHYRHILLS
State: FLORIDA
Country: UNITED STATES
DESCRIPTION
Description: AIRCRAFT LANDED GEAR UP, ZEPHYRHILLS FL

OTHER
Activity: PERSONAL
Flight Phase: LANDING (LDG)
Operation: 91
Aircraft Operator:
Flight Number:
FAA FSDO: TAMPA FSDO
Entry Date: 21-MAY-18
Updated since entry: No
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ShawnM
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby ShawnM » Mon May 21, 2018 4:32 pm

Thanks for posting Stan. I'll follow up to see if there is a NTSB prelim report to go along with it or not. As of this post no prelim report is available.

TimTaylor
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby TimTaylor » Mon May 21, 2018 6:52 pm

Unfortunately, gear-up landings are not unusual, and as FastEddieB posted, many times due to a disruption in your normal routine. I've never had a gear-up, and probably never will flying LSA now. Use of a checklist is something we should all be doing, but I also still use the GUMPP acronym on final (gas, undercarriage, mixture, props, pumps).
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

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Scooper
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby Scooper » Mon May 21, 2018 8:04 pm

Kathryn's Report now has it posted. Still no NTSB Accident Number, though, and no details except what we already know: "Aircraft landed gear up." Short and not-so-sweet.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018/05/pilatus-pc-1247e-n83jr-incident.html
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FastEddieB
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby FastEddieB » Mon May 21, 2018 8:27 pm

I think my Mooney friend, right before the horrible scrunching sounds, would have sworn he had done the checklist. Which he had - before raising the gear again, of course.

I am “Mr. Checklist”, yet at least once I’ve gone to turn off my boost pump after landing, only to realize I never turned it on. Invariably because of something outside of routine going on. It happens. Obviously!
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carlapilot
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby carlapilot » Mon May 28, 2018 4:04 am

so he forgot to check that the gears are extended?
:o
Ok i am a student, and learning on C152... but thinking of the future... its many cases when pilots forget this... and landing like this... :o Im scared already what if I forget one day. But my flightschool is very strong and serious with checklists.... but still so. Experienced pilots do mistakes too.

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ShawnM
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby ShawnM » Mon May 28, 2018 7:57 pm

That is correct Carla, he forgot to put the gear down upon landing. It happens to the best pilots, we all make mistakes, maybe not this expensive but we all make mistakes. :mrgreen:

Once again, this is why we use checklists and not try to recall things from memory. Glad your school is "strong and serious" about using them, one day the checklist may save your life.

Apparently this Pilatus was listed for sale on Controller.com at the time of the incident. The plane only has 241 hours and was listed for sale at $4.55 million dollars. :shock:

I'm certain that the 5 bladed hartzell prop alone that sheared off during the landing costs more than my entire SportCruiser did. :shock:

Needless to say the listing has been removed so if any of you were looking to buy it there will be a slight delay before the sale. :mrgreen:

Warmi
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby Warmi » Mon May 28, 2018 8:04 pm

90 k for the PC-12 prop... so you were close. :D
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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ShawnM
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby ShawnM » Tue May 29, 2018 6:31 am

Warmi wrote:90 k for the PC-12 prop... so you were close. :D


$90K, OMG :shock: I guess I shouldn’t complain about my $1200 Woodcomp prop then.

I bought my SportCruiser used in 2013 and paid a lot less than $90K. :mrgreen:

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drseti
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby drseti » Tue May 29, 2018 8:55 am

The most common scenario leading to gear-up landings involves a go-around. The second time around the pattern, the pilot "remembers" having already lowered the landing gear.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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TimTaylor
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Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby TimTaylor » Tue May 29, 2018 10:18 am

I aways did 4 things and had students do the same.

1. Use the checklist for each phase of flight
2. Use the GUMPPP acronym (gas, undercarriage, mixture, props, pumps, pressure) at the appropriate time and on final
3. Say "gear down, locked, and green" out-loud when putting gear down or verifying
4. Touch the three green light indicators, don't just recite the words.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument


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