Why we use checklists.....

Sport aviation is growing rapidly. But the new sport pilot / light-sport aircraft rules are still a mystery to many flight schools and instructors. To locate a flight school offering sport pilot training and/or light-sport aircraft rentals, click on the "Flight School And Rental Finder" tab above. This is a great place to share ideas on learning to fly, flight schools, costs and anything else related to training.

Moderator: drseti

User avatar
ShawnM
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:59 pm
Location: Clearwater, FL / KZPH

Why we use checklists.....

Postby ShawnM » Sun May 20, 2018 6:31 am

This boys and girls is why we use CHECKLISTS !!!! This poor guy closed the main runway, 5/23, at my airport today.

I'll give you one guess as to what he forgot to check. :shock:

This Pilatus PC-12 is approximately a 4 million dollar airplane, no word if the charter pilot still has a job or not. :mrgreen:

Interestingly, the FAA published the NOTAM within about 15-20 minutes of the "landing" stating 5/23 was closed for 24 hours.

The moral of this post, use your checklist, you're not "too cool" to use one, just ask this guy. 8)

PS - This is my all time favorite airplane and it was sad to see it here instead of in his hangar.

IMG_6147 (Medium).jpg
IMG_6147 (Medium).jpg (96.62 KiB) Viewed 2007 times

chicagorandy
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby chicagorandy » Sun May 20, 2018 7:01 am

Crikey! I hope no one was injured in the belly landing. Did the prop blades shear off?

I thought them there 'fancy' airplanes had warning horns for landing gear deployment or lack thereof? Or did the pilot experience a mechanical gear failure?

User avatar
ShawnM
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:59 pm
Location: Clearwater, FL / KZPH

Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby ShawnM » Sun May 20, 2018 7:23 am

No one was injured, a friend of mine who was in his hangar about 100 yards away from where the plane came to a stop looked up at the last minute and saw it slide to a stop and he said only the pilot got out. And yes, the first parts he picked up were the 4 blades that sheared off.

I would've thought this plane would have a warning system also. I tried to google this and saw some info about a gear warning system but nothing definitive.

There were no calls made about any failures and no emergency vehicles on site. I think it was just an oversight. I saw one person talking to the pilot but I certainly wasn't going to ask him anything. His ego was bruised enough.

He was landing on runway 5 and came to a stop just about half way down the runway. They are now waiting on a company to bring in some airbags to lift it up to hopefully get the gear down and move it off the runway back to his hangar.

This will certainly ruin your day.

Sling 2 Pilot
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:53 pm

Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby Sling 2 Pilot » Sun May 20, 2018 8:18 am

So at this point in time, we don’t actually know if it was pilot error or a mechanical issue? If that’s the case, it’s sad that we are judging the result before all facts are in.

User avatar
ShawnM
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:59 pm
Location: Clearwater, FL / KZPH

Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby ShawnM » Sun May 20, 2018 8:52 am

Since my friend Ted was the first to call the airport manager at the FBO to inform him of the gear up landing and there were no emergency vehicles on site and the gear was tucked away nice and neat in the plane with no signs of a collapse we ALL on site came to the consensus that he forgot the gear.

Had there been a mechanical failure it would be more obvious or there would have been emergency vehicles there waiting for him.

Wm.Ince
Posts: 729
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:27 pm
Location: Clearwater, FL

Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby Wm.Ince » Sun May 20, 2018 8:58 am

ShawnM wrote:This boys and girls is why we use CHECKLISTS !!!! This poor guy closed the main runway, 5/23, at my airport today.
I'll give you one guess as to what he forgot to check. :shock:
This Pilatus PC-12 is approximately a 4 million dollar airplane, no word if the charter pilot still has a job or not. :mrgreen:
Interestingly, the FAA published the NOTAM within about 15-20 minutes of the "landing" stating 5/23 was closed for 24 hours.
The moral of this post, use your checklist, you're not "too cool" to use one, just ask this guy. 8)

What are the facts of the accident? Have you read the NTSB final report?
If you haven't, I caution you on making such irresponsible and hasty assertions.
Your post sounded like a snippet from a tabloid newspaper.
Bill Ince
CTSW
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator

User avatar
ShawnM
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:59 pm
Location: Clearwater, FL / KZPH

Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby ShawnM » Sun May 20, 2018 11:08 am

You're right, I wasn't there, didn't see a thing, didn't talk to anyone or look over the plane.
What do I know? I'm just a writer for the National Enquirer. :mrgreen:

TimTaylor
Posts: 977
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby TimTaylor » Sun May 20, 2018 12:46 pm

ShawnM wrote:Since my friend Ted was the first to call the airport manager at the FBO to inform him of the gear up landing and there were no emergency vehicles on site and the gear was tucked away nice and neat in the plane with no signs of a collapse we ALL on site came to the consensus that he forgot the gear.

Had there been a mechanical failure it would be more obvious or there would have been emergency vehicles there waiting for him.

I agree. If it was a mechanical failure, he would have been in contact with the manufacturer trying to solve the problem. He would have been in contact with people at the airport, etc. Nobody just lands an airplane with mechanical gear failure without taking every possible course of action to solve the problem.

Regarding a gear warning, believe it or not, people have managed to land gear up with a gear warning horn blaring away. Obviously, we don't know what happened here.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 5855
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby drseti » Sun May 20, 2018 4:26 pm

A hangar neighbor landed his Cardinal RG gear-up at my home field in CA 40 or so years ago. He said he was so distracted by that blaring horn that he forgot to put his gear down !

(Fortunately, it was on grass, with very little damage.)
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

3Dreaming
Posts: 2396
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby 3Dreaming » Sun May 20, 2018 6:09 pm

An electrical failure would have prevented communication with the FBO. It would have prevented the horn from operating. It would have prevented normal operation of the gear. There is however an emergency gear extension procedure.

User avatar
Half Fast
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 7:27 pm
Location: Central Florida

Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby Half Fast » Sun May 20, 2018 8:20 pm

Shutdown checklist following gear-up landing:

1. Shut off engine.
2. Master switch OFF.
3. Move gear selector to DOWN position.
1/2
----------------
I dream of a world where chickens can cross roads without having their motives questioned.

TimTaylor
Posts: 977
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby TimTaylor » Sun May 20, 2018 9:27 pm

3Dreaming wrote:An electrical failure would have prevented communication with the FBO. It would have prevented the horn from operating. It would have prevented normal operation of the gear. There is however an emergency gear extension procedure.

:roll:
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

User avatar
ShawnM
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:59 pm
Location: Clearwater, FL / KZPH

Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby ShawnM » Mon May 21, 2018 6:30 am

This Pilatus is the THIRD gear up landing at my airport in the 2 years I've been hangaring there. The last one was a Mooney and the guy just finished the engine swap and repairs last week. After it happened he was able to move into the empty hangar across from me while they did the repairs. The third one I dont remember the details, I just remember hearing talk of one.

Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right? Thankfully no one was injured in the Pilatus or the Mooney events, only some bruised egos I'm sure.

User avatar
FastEddieB
Posts: 2490
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby FastEddieB » Mon May 21, 2018 8:56 am

ShawnM wrote:
Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right?


We do.

Has not happened to me - yet.

But I have a friend who I taught to fly in my Citabria, and later he bought a Mooney and I transitioned him to it. I’m big on checklists and hopefully ingrained that in him.

But...

One day at Opa Locka he was all gear down and locked on final in his Mooney, but had to do around. Gear up is part of the go around procedure. He was then cleared to land and did so. With the gear still up.

And that’s usually how it happens - some distraction or break in procedures. It’s specifically not stupidity, nor usually lack of training. Just human foibles at work.
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
FastEddieB@mac.com

3Dreaming
Posts: 2396
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: Why we use checklists.....

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon May 21, 2018 9:17 am

TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:An electrical failure would have prevented communication with the FBO. It would have prevented the horn from operating. It would have prevented normal operation of the gear. There is however an emergency gear extension procedure.

:roll:


Roll your eyes all you want. I was just saying there could be reasons beyond just simply not putting the gear down.

I know of an incident with a Bonanza, where almost the exact same thing happened. The only difference was they did put the gear down. The fellow was on his way to Evansville to get some radio work done. He had just made radio contact when he had an electrical system failure. He turned around and headed back to his home airport. He cranked the gear down, and flew across the FBO a couple times trying to get someone to come out and look at the gear. Anyway he landed with no issue. On the Bonanza the battery box on the firewall seems like a place that mechanics will lay down tools while working. There was an errant 1/4" universal joint that a mechanic didn't get picked up. It slid off the box and down the firewall getting lodged between the positive battery cable and the firewall at the solenoid. He was lucky that it didn't cause a fire. The electrical failure was almost instantaneous. I had not worked on the airplane before, but I was the one who found the universal joint that was causing the problem.


Return to “Training”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests